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Subject:
Decapitation speed
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: freefmbabe-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
03 Feb 2006 15:29 PST
Expires: 05 Mar 2006 15:29 PST Question ID: 441098 |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: pinkfreud-ga on 03 Feb 2006 15:35 PST |
I have never heard of anyone being decapitated in a sudden stop, unless some foreign object is involved. Brain injuries are not uncommon in such cases, but I can't imagine that just the physical forces of an auto accident could remove the head from the body. |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: canadianhelper-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:01 PST |
Spontaneous Decapitation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term=spontaneous+decapitation&tool=QuerySuggestion Here is a movie involving Spontaneous Decapitation: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113276/maindetails Someone else with the same thought: http://www.uacomic.com/index.php?comic=59 Accidental decapitation: an unusual injury to a passenger in a vehicle. Kibayashi K, Yonemitsu K, Honjyo K, Tsunenari S. Department of Forensic Medicine, Kumamoto University School of Medicine, Japan. A case of decapitation of a vehicle passenger in an accident on a highway is reported. Evaluation of roadside evidence and the deceased's injuries revealed that the victim was partially ejected from a broken passenger-side window as the vehicle spun out of control, decapitation being due to the impact of his head against a barrier stanchion on the shoulder of the road. An unfastened seat-belt, high-speed driving and the construction of the road barrier were contributory factors. But an exact answer I could not find....any engineers here that can calculate forces? |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: pinkfreud-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:09 PST |
>> ...decapitation being due to the impact of his head against a >> barrier stanchion on the shoulder of the road... It certainly sounds as if it wasn't the force of a sudden stop that decapitated this person. It was the impact with a foreign object. |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:10 PST |
I've investigated many fatality accidents in my 20+ years in law enforcement and I have never had occassion to see a victim whose head was "knocked off" by the force of a sudden impact or disconnected from the body by the force of a sudden stop alone. I have, on a number of occassions, seen people who were knocked out of every stitch of clothing (including their shoes and socks) as a result of an impact but even those people's heads were still intact. Physiologically speaking the neck muscles are tremendously strong and dense in most healthy people and they are sufficient to maintain a connection to the torso even when stretched to absurd lengths. It is my experience that accident investigators see no more detatched heads as a direct result of sheer force alone than they tend to see detatched limbs as a direct result of sheer force alone - which is virtually none, in my estimation. The truth is that almost all decapitation injuries originate with the total or partial severing, crushing or avulsion of the head or neck and those victims who give the appearance of simply losing their heads as a result of force alone actually suffered from a direct penetrating injury that enabled it. Can you literally sling someone's head off? Sure; given enough force. Even a steel girder could theoretically be whipped off like a brittle twig under enough force. How much force would it take? Who know? I don't imagine there have been many head detachment vs. neck strength x force studies conducted. Does that work as answer in lieu of actual data (which I don't believe is out there)? tutuzdad-ga |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: freefmbabe-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:34 PST |
Thanks for getting back so quickly. What you've given already is great, but for my purposes I do need the actual speed. Also, if you can find any example of this happening, that would be fantastic. |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: weisstho-ga on 03 Feb 2006 17:29 PST |
I had the unpleasant task of being among the first to arrive at the site of a single-engine airplane crash where the two pilots were occupying the front seat. Witness reports had the plane flying at an extremely high rate of speed and the plane hit the ground at (guessing) 140 knots (160 mph) and there wasn't an identifiable body part remaining. There was room between the seats and the instrument panel - certainly the shoulder harness could have servered the bodies . . . but it was odd that there were no identifiable pieces. |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 03 Feb 2006 18:33 PST |
Indeed. In an extremely high speed impact such as a plane crash the skeleton and enternal organs burst through the body where the body impacts the stationary earth or (as in your case and many others) the dashboard and virtually disentegrates, leaving only a "mass" behind which is usually only discernable as clothing and body fluids. tutuzdad-ga |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: azdoug-ga on 03 Feb 2006 20:17 PST |
Have any of you seen the pictures of the black guy who tried to jump a fence and ended up decapitating himself? They're floating around on the internet if you want to find them... Anyway, the pictures show a headless body at the base of a fence - and a torso-less head skewered on one of the fence prongs. They say he tried to jump the fence and the back of his neck landed on the prong. The body broke loose, and that was that. If it's indeed true (and it appears to be), there couldn't have been a high velocity involved... |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: azdoug-ga on 03 Feb 2006 20:20 PST |
here ya go: http://www.snopes.com/photos/decapitate.asp Snopes says it's true... |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 04 Feb 2006 06:28 PST |
As I mentioned, most decapitation injuries originate with the total or partial severing, crushing or avulsion of the head or neck and those victims who give the appearance of simply losing their heads as a result of force alone actually suffered from a traumatic penetrating injury that precipitated the decapitation. This example provided wherein the fellow lost his head on the fence is a prime example of that. His head was not detatched because of sheer force; the spike that penetrated the back of his neck severed the spine and a portion of the neck and precipitated the decapitation. The force of the victim's weight had very little to do this this particular freak accident. If that were true then eveyone who ever got executed by hanging would have lost their heads as well - but they didn't. tutuzdad-ga |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 04 Feb 2006 07:28 PST |
Isadora Duncan kept her head. |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 04 Feb 2006 07:38 PST |
"affectations can be dangerous" |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 04 Feb 2006 10:43 PST |
> "affectations can be dangerous" In a Bugatti - when one's wearing few clothes ... It does have that staccato Saki ring to it - or is it Cowardesque I have the next stanza Darn thing is that there is the gist of a musical in this http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/381/ |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: britboy1-ga on 10 Feb 2006 09:02 PST |
OK, here?s an engineers take on the matter. Did a little research, I would image the setup would have to be just right to perform this stunt but here goes: The Human head ways approximately 8Lbs, tissue needed to be lacerated to remove the head are skin, tendons, muscle. Skin has greater elastic limit than underlying fat and blood vessels but is possible to cause blunt force lacerations at circa 158 miles per hour (71 m/s) using rubber bullets. This is not the biggest problem however, the muscles and tendons would cause a huge amount of deceleration due to their elasticity, and so what you need is to cause the muscle to lacerate without question. Muscles (varying on size and density) require approximately 224 Lb-Force to tear (1000 Newtons), so factoring the head as the only part of the body not strapped down, that gives us 8Lbs of force to work with. Using the N formulae of N= KG * M/S2 -> 8Lbs = 3.629 Kgs -> 3.629 Kgs * (1000/3.629)=m/s -> 276m/s or 617 Mph. So, skin would lacerate at 158 miles per hour if no muscle were present, but due to muscle mass in neck, you would need 617 mph to completely lacerate the neck muscles, this force would easily lacerate the skin and tendons would have also lacerated. Of course, the brain and other features would literally pop out your eyes and mouth and you would be very pulpy. I recommend facing backwards with your whole body restrained except your head (neck included). To maximize the chance, wear a helmet!! But 617Mph is my best guess (based on muscle tear) and the restraints used cannot be seat belts or the torso would rib through the belt (at least partially), so maybe a whole body wrap. Hope this helps! |
Subject:
Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 11 Feb 2006 02:57 PST |
Thinking about it, I remember a friend telling me about something he saw at the TT race on the Isle of Man A biker crashed, and his head came off in his helmet - of course it was really knocked off, but cars have steering wheels, dash boards and wind screens Hmm... I also remember something about a sports car, running underneath a truck - very messy. |
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