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Q: Decapitation speed ( No Answer,   15 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Decapitation speed
Category: Science > Physics
Asked by: freefmbabe-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 03 Feb 2006 15:29 PST
Expires: 05 Mar 2006 15:29 PST
Question ID: 441098
At what speed would one be decapitated by their body coming to a
sudden stop? (ie in a car accident)

Clarification of Question by freefmbabe-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:59 PST
Also, it does not have to necessarily be in a car accident.  Another
apparatus would suffice.  Is it true that your body would liquefy
before this would happen?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: pinkfreud-ga on 03 Feb 2006 15:35 PST
 
I have never heard of anyone being decapitated in a sudden stop,
unless some foreign object is involved. Brain injuries are not
uncommon in such cases, but I can't imagine that just the physical
forces of an auto accident could remove the head from the body.
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: canadianhelper-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:01 PST
 
Spontaneous Decapitation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term=spontaneous+decapitation&tool=QuerySuggestion

Here is a movie involving Spontaneous Decapitation:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113276/maindetails

Someone else with the same thought:
http://www.uacomic.com/index.php?comic=59

Accidental decapitation: an unusual injury to a passenger in a vehicle.

Kibayashi K, Yonemitsu K, Honjyo K, Tsunenari S.

Department of Forensic Medicine, Kumamoto University School of Medicine, Japan.

A case of decapitation of a vehicle passenger in an accident on a
highway is reported. Evaluation of roadside evidence and the
deceased's injuries revealed that the victim was partially ejected
from a broken passenger-side window as the vehicle spun out of
control, decapitation being due to the impact of his head against a
barrier stanchion on the shoulder of the road. An unfastened
seat-belt, high-speed driving and the construction of the road barrier
were contributory factors.

But an exact answer I could not find....any engineers here that can
calculate forces?
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: pinkfreud-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:09 PST
 
>> ...decapitation being due to the impact of his head against a
>> barrier stanchion on the shoulder of the road...

It certainly sounds as if it wasn't the force of a sudden stop that
decapitated this person. It was the impact with a foreign object.
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:10 PST
 
I've investigated many fatality accidents in my 20+ years in law
enforcement and I have never had occassion to see a victim whose head
was "knocked off" by the force of a sudden impact or disconnected from
the body by the force of a sudden stop alone. I have, on a number of
occassions, seen people who were knocked out of every stitch of
clothing (including their shoes and socks) as a result of an impact
but even those people's heads were still intact.

Physiologically speaking the neck muscles are tremendously strong and
dense in most healthy people and they are sufficient to maintain a
connection to the torso even when stretched to absurd lengths. It is
my experience that accident investigators see no more detatched heads
as a direct result of sheer force alone than they tend to see
detatched limbs as a direct result of sheer force alone - which is
virtually none, in my estimation. The truth is that almost all
decapitation injuries originate with the total or partial severing,
crushing or avulsion of the head or neck and those victims who give
the appearance of simply losing their heads as a result of force alone
actually suffered from a direct penetrating injury that enabled it.

Can you literally sling someone's head off? Sure; given enough force.
Even a steel girder could theoretically be whipped off like a brittle
twig under enough force. How much force would it take? Who know? I
don't imagine there have been many head detachment vs. neck strength x
force studies conducted.

Does that work as answer in lieu of actual data (which I don't believe
is out there)?

tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: freefmbabe-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:34 PST
 
Thanks for getting back so quickly.  What you've given already is
great, but for my purposes I do need the actual speed.  Also, if you
can find any example of this happening, that would be fantastic.
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: weisstho-ga on 03 Feb 2006 17:29 PST
 
I had the unpleasant task of being among the first to arrive at the
site of a single-engine airplane crash where the two pilots were
occupying the front seat. Witness reports had the plane flying at an
extremely high rate of speed and the plane hit the ground at
(guessing) 140 knots (160 mph) and there wasn't an identifiable body
part remaining. There was room between the seats and the instrument
panel - certainly the shoulder harness could have servered the bodies
. . . but it was odd that there were no identifiable pieces.
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 03 Feb 2006 18:33 PST
 
Indeed. In an extremely high speed impact such as a plane crash the
skeleton and enternal organs burst through the body where the body
impacts the stationary earth or (as in your case and many others) the
dashboard and virtually disentegrates, leaving only a "mass" behind
which is usually only discernable as clothing and body fluids.

tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: azdoug-ga on 03 Feb 2006 20:17 PST
 
Have any of you seen the pictures of the black guy who tried to jump a
fence and ended up decapitating himself?  They're floating around on
the internet if you want to find them...

Anyway, the pictures show a headless body at the base of a fence - and
a torso-less head skewered on one of the fence prongs.  They say he
tried to jump the fence and the back of his neck landed on the prong. 
The body broke loose, and that was that.

If it's indeed true (and it appears to be), there couldn't have been a
high velocity involved...
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: azdoug-ga on 03 Feb 2006 20:20 PST
 
here ya go:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/decapitate.asp

Snopes says it's true...
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 04 Feb 2006 06:28 PST
 
As I mentioned, most decapitation injuries originate with the total or
partial severing, crushing or avulsion of the head or neck and those
victims who give
the appearance of simply losing their heads as a result of force alone
actually suffered from a traumatic penetrating injury that
precipitated the decapitation. This example provided wherein the
fellow lost his head on the fence is a prime example of that. His head
was not detatched because of sheer force; the spike that penetrated
the back of his neck severed the spine and a portion of the neck and
precipitated the decapitation. The force of the victim's weight had
very little to do this this particular freak accident. If that were
true then eveyone who ever got executed by hanging would have lost
their heads as well - but they didn't.

tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 04 Feb 2006 07:28 PST
 
Isadora Duncan kept her head.
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: tutuzdad-ga on 04 Feb 2006 07:38 PST
 
"affectations can be dangerous"
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 04 Feb 2006 10:43 PST
 
> "affectations can be dangerous"

In a Bugatti
- when one's wearing few clothes

... It does have that staccato Saki ring to it - or is it Cowardesque

I have the next stanza

Darn thing is that there is the gist of a musical in this
http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/381/
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: britboy1-ga on 10 Feb 2006 09:02 PST
 
OK, here?s an engineers take on the matter.

Did a little research, I would image the setup would have to be just
right to perform this stunt but here goes:

The Human head ways approximately 8Lbs, tissue needed to be lacerated
to remove the head are skin, tendons, muscle.

Skin has greater elastic limit than underlying fat and blood vessels
but is possible to cause blunt force lacerations at circa 158 miles
per hour (71 m/s) using rubber bullets. This is not the biggest
problem however, the muscles and tendons would cause a huge amount of
deceleration due to their elasticity, and so what you need is to cause
the muscle to lacerate without question.

Muscles (varying on size and density) require approximately 224
Lb-Force to tear (1000 Newtons), so factoring the head as the only
part of the body not strapped down, that gives us 8Lbs of force to
work with. Using the N formulae of N= KG * M/S2 -> 8Lbs = 3.629 Kgs ->
3.629 Kgs * (1000/3.629)=m/s -> 276m/s or 617 Mph.

So, skin would lacerate at 158  miles per hour if no muscle were
present, but due to muscle mass in neck, you would need 617 mph to
completely lacerate
the neck muscles, this force would easily lacerate the skin and
tendons would have also lacerated. Of course, the brain and other
features would literally pop out your eyes and mouth and you would be
very pulpy. I recommend facing backwards with your whole body
restrained except your head (neck included).

To maximize the chance, wear a helmet!! But 617Mph is my best guess
(based on muscle tear) and the restraints used cannot be seat belts or
the torso would rib through the belt (at least partially), so maybe a
whole body wrap.

Hope this helps!
Subject: Re: Decapitation speed
From: frde-ga on 11 Feb 2006 02:57 PST
 
Thinking about it, I remember a friend telling me about something he
saw at the TT race on the Isle of Man

A biker crashed, and his head came off in his helmet
- of course it was really knocked off, but cars have steering wheels,
dash boards and wind screens

Hmm... I also remember something about a sports car, running
underneath a truck - very messy.

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