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Q: Aviation: ICAO ATPL... what is it? ( No Answer,   3 Comments )
Subject: Aviation: ICAO ATPL... what is it?
Category: Reference, Education and News > Job and Careers
Asked by: joblio-ga
List Price: $6.00
Posted: 18 Dec 2004 19:08 PST
Expires: 17 Jan 2005 19:08 PST
Question ID: 444523
I am a pilot, looking for a job at an international airpline.  I have
an ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) certificate issued from the United
States, and the job listing requires an "ICAO ATPL or a JAA Frozen
ATPL."  What is the difference between an ATP certificate issued from
the US and an ICAO ATPL?  Am I qualified for this job?
There is no answer at this time.

Subject: Re: Aviation: ICAO ATPL... what is it?
From: brabazon-ga on 21 Dec 2004 03:04 PST
ICAO is the worldwide regulation, but some countries have their own
(like the US' ATP and Europe's JAA's ATPL) this thread may help:;read=45034&expand=1
Subject: Re: Aviation: ICAO ATPL... what is it?
From: aviatrix-ga on 07 Sep 2005 15:23 PDT
The short anwser is no, you are not qualified if you do not have a JAA
issued Airline Transport Pilot License/ATPL. More over you would have
to have the right to work in an EU country to take such a position and
if you are not up to speed on the JAA ATPL, I can bet you don't have
that either.

The "frozen ATPL" is a phrase used, informally, in JAR states (and
especially the UK) to mean a Commercial pilot with intsrument rating
that has the ATPL exams passed but does not yet qualify for the ATPL
due to lack of flight time.

Commonly first officers flying under JAA regulations have what is
known as a ?frozen ATPL?. Once their flight time is then built up with
an airline, they take an ATPL skills check to be issued with the full

The hours required for a full JAA ATPL are:
Total Time 1500 hrs, to include:
500hrs pilot in a Multi-crew aircraft
250 Hrs P1 (or 100 P1C and 150 P1u/s)
200 Hrs cross country
75 hrs Instrument flight
100 hrs Night

To upgrade an ICAO CPL to a JAA CPL:
(This assumes you have gained a CPL/IR outside of the JAA - ie USA).

The JAA ATPL hours required are:
100 hrs P1
20 hrs cross-country ? to include a route of at least 300 nm with two
full stop landings at aerodromes other than that of departure.
10 hrs instrument training ? 5 hrs may be on ground
5 hours at night comprising at least 3 hours of dual instruction,
including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation, and 5 solo
take-offs and 5 full-stop landings.
Total hrs required for issue of license = 200

You must have achieved the required 200 hours flight time for the
issue of a JAA CPL. You will get about 10 to 20 hrs doing the upgrade,
so need to start with about 180 minimum.

You will then need to study for and pass all the ground exams, by
following an approved JAA course ? probably a standard 650 hours
course. This can be done by distance learning or full time.

Next is a CPL skills check. It is not a formal course, just sufficient
training to enable you to pass the JAA CPL skills test. This may be
2/3 hours or "if you can't fly" a lot longer.

Next will be a twin type rating - again it may be a quick check if you
gained one previously, or a 6 hour course if starting from scratch.
If you are not a UK citizen you have to prove you can speak English!
This is done by taking the FRTOL (RT licence).

Next you will need a minimum 15 hour IR upgrade course, again this may
be longer if your IR skills are not up to scratch.
Finally you round it all off with the Multi-Crew Course.

This thread more accurately explains the processes one must take to
convert their FAA ATP to a JAA one based on flight experience:

You can also refer to Sections A7 and G1.5 from this document:
Subject: Re: Aviation: ICAO ATPL... what is it?
From: joblio-ga on 07 Sep 2005 16:15 PDT
Thank you... so if I have my ATP from the US, that is NOT a ICAO ATP,
correct?  The job posting only required a "ICAO ATPL -or- Frozen JAA

Thanks for your work, Aviatrix.  If you can answer this last question
I'll open another question and give you the credit, of if there is
some way of reopening this question, I'll do that.  Ideas?

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