What is the correct American pronunciation of "vitae," "pneumoniae," 
"enterobacteriaceae?"  The correct British pronunciation?  The correct
Latin pronunciation?  Is there a general rule for pronouncing "-ae?"

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 21 Jan 2005 17:47 PST

Banach,

You have mentioned that some of the resources I posted in the
"Comments" section have been useful to you. I'd be glad to post an
official Answer to your question, if you'd like me to do so. However,
as I've said, there really is no consensus on a single correct way to
pronounce words which end in "-ae".

~Pink

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Clarification of Question by banach-ga on 22 Jan 2005 10:20 PST

As I said, the links you provided went a long way toward answering my
question.  Thank you for your help.  If you'd like to post an official
answer, perhaps I could clarify my question as follows:  In scientific
discourse, one hears the names of genera and species, as well as many
other terms derived from Latin, pronounced in different ways, e.g.
"pneumoniae" may be pronounced with a long "I" at the end, or a long
"A;" "petechiae" may end with a long "A," "E," or "I."  Surely there
must be a preferred pronunciation (standard in the field, used by most
scientists, endorsed by some high authority or otherwise generally
acknowledged as correct) and this is the pronunciation I am seeking. 
While one can hardly be criticized for pronouncing words in Classical
(reconstructed) Latin phonology, my sense is that Linneaus' Latin
(1735) should be the definitive source, the gold standard.
  
It's like asking Linus Torvalds how to pronuonce "Linux." Since he
invented the word, he gets to specify the pronunciation.

Commonly-used English words have a life of their own, amd I doubt that
there is a single correct pronunciation for "curriculum vitae"
(although I'd love to know it if there is). The rule I am seeking
applies solely to descriptive and anatomical nomenclature in the
biological sciences -- "bullae," "petechiae," "enterobacteriaceae,"
"gonorrhoeae," "chordae tendineae" and so on.  I wonder if there is a
simple rule (e.g. always use the long "A") which applies to this class
of words.

Your references demonstrated to me that there are a number of
different "correct" pronunciations of Latin words.  My question is
what is the most correct pronunciation, the preferred pronunciation,
of biological and anatomical terms. Implicit in this question is why
this is the best pronunciation -- is it  conventional, established by
usage, or is there an underlying formalism, such as 18th century Latin
pronunciation, that serves as a gold standard.

Thanks for your interest in this question and thanks again for your help.

Banach

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 22 Jan 2005 11:28 PST

I'm sorry, but I have done quite a bit of searching, and I have not
been able to nail down a "most correct" pronunciation. Reputable
sources offer several pronunciations which are viewed as equally
acceptable. I just don't think you're likely to find a "best"
pronunciation. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I'm
not likely to find one.

Your question will remain open for another day. Perhaps another
Researcher will succeed where I have failed. If the question should
expire unanswered, and you are still seeking an answer, you may want
to repost this as a new question. The only fee levied upon an expired,
unanswered question is the fifty-cent listing fee collected by Google
Answers. I hope I've given you fifty cents worth of info. ;-)

~pinkfreud

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Clarification of Question by banach-ga on 22 Jan 2005 15:31 PST

If that's the answer, Pink, then that's the answer.  I'd be glad to
see what you found, posted as an official Answer.

Best regards,

Banach

I've gathered some material for you on the subject of the
pronunciation of words which end in -ae. Copyright restrictions limit
me to posting just brief excerpts; if you'd like to read these
articles in their entirety, just click the link beneath each excerpt.

"One of the most important sound changes in Latin was the gradual
disappearance of the diphthong 'ae', which came to be pronunced simply
as 'e'. In some words, the spelling did not change (but the
pronunciation probably did!) -- and in other cases, the spelling of
the word changed to reflect the pronunciation.

This change affected the stem of the word: so, for example, the word
haereo was often spelled hereo (which is, ultimately, why we say
'adhesive' in English, instead of 'adhaesive'). This change also
affected the morphological endings of words, especially in the
feminine declension: the plural of femina was no longer feminae, but
femine.

This change in the pronunciation of the diphthong 'ae' was one of the
most destabilizing factors in the declension system of Latin nouns."

Medieval Latin Online (University of Oklahoma)
http://www.mythfolklore.net/medieval_latin/grammar/ae.htm

"Church Latin...
 ae, oe: ay, as in 'say'"

Pages of Chris Wendl: A Guide for Classical Radio Announcers
http://www.math.nyu.edu/~wendlc/pronunciation/Latin.html

"The ancient Roman pronunciation is of course what we use when
teaching or seriously speaking Latin. Its biggest peculiarities are
that v is pronounced like English w, and ae like English ai in aisle.
These two sounds were already changing at the end of the classical
period...

Spelling errors made by the ancient Romans are very informative. If
two letters are often mixed up, they must sound fairly similar.
Likewise, if two letters are never mixed up, we know they sounded
different.

Here?s an example. In classical times, the natives had no trouble
keeping ae distinct from e; if they ever misspelled ae it came out ai.
Later on, they started changing ae to e. That enables us to pinpoint
when the sound of ae changed."

Pages of Michael Covington: Latin Pronunciation Demystified
http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf

"Pronunciation Challenges: Confusions and Controversy

§ 12. alumni / alumnae 
Alumni, the Latin plural of alumnus, is usually pronounced
[uh-lum-nye], according to the pronunciation rules for Anglicized
Latin. Likewise alumnae, the Latin plural of alumna, is usually
pronounced [uh-lum-nee]. Confusion comes about in part because in
English i has several possible pronunciations and ae is an unusual
combination. Also, in classical Latin pronunciation, which attempts to
approximate the pronunciation of ancient Roman times, the opposite
would be true, that is, the final vowel sound of alumni would be [long
e], and the final vowel sound of alumnae would be [long i]."

Bartleby: The American HeritageŽ Book of English Usage
http://bartleby.school.aol.com/64/C007/012.html

"Latin words in common use in English are fully assimilated into the
English sound system, with little to mark them as foreign (indeed,
people do not generally even think of Latin as being a foreign
language), e.g. cranium, saliva. Other words have a stronger Latin
feel to them, usually because of spelling features such as the
diphthongs ae and oe (occasionally written ć and ?)... In the Oxford
style, ae is pronounced [long a], in 'formulae' for example. Ae in
some words tends to be given [a long i] pronunciation, e.g. curriculum
vitae."

Wikipedia: Latin phonemes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_phonemes#Latin_pronunciation_today

(NOTE: The articles from Bartleby and Wikipedia which are linked above
contain some phonetic characters which Google Answers cannot reproduce
accurately, so I have tried to transliterate them. For greater
clarity, please click the link to the original text.)

I posted these final links earlier, in the "Comments" section.

"In microbiology and other scientific fields there are latin terms. As
far as their pronunciation is concerned, there is one thing I am
unsure about and that is the pronunciation of the ending 'ae'.

Some examples: 

1) Hemophilus influenzae 
2) Streptococcus agalaticae 
3) Enterobacteriaceae 
4) Orthomyxoviridae 

I heard the endings of example 1) and 4) being pronounced like the 
letter 'e' ([... influenzee] and [Orthomyxoviridee]).

But for examples 2) and 3) pronouncing the ending this way sounds weird to me. 

How would you pronounce them? 
 
As -ee. The BrE general rule is to pronounce scientific terms in the old 
English fashion and not as classical Latin or pseudo-Italian "Church Latin". 
So "fungi" should be "fun - jigh" to rhyme with "high", not "foon-ghee" 
(classical, more or less) and not "foon-jee" (vaguely Church Latin). 
'Influenzae' would end in '-ee' in trad. BrE, '-igh' in classical Latin, 
'-ay' in Church Latin." 

Vocaboly: Pronunciation of Latin terms?
http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ftopic1310.html

"Language is about communication. Provided the parties in a discussion
can understand each other, variations in pronunciation of individual
words can be tolerated or disregarded. Everyday modern English is
filled with examples of variant pronunciations that cause no
communication problems (e.g., either, tomato, laboratory, fertile).
These variant pronunciations have many causes. Regional practice is
probably the single most important variant, but educational and social
backgrounds also play a part, as do personal preferences and even
etymologic theories. It would be futile and (some believe) undesirable
to impose uniformity by prescribing approved pronunciations when
communication is not compromised. Moreover, in all languages,
pronunciation changes constantly...

The standard pronunciation of Latin that scholars have reconstructed
implies the primacy (for literary purposes) of the so-called Golden
Age of Caesar, Cicero, and the Augustan poets and historians.
Infectious disease specialists in the 21st century should not adopt
this pronunciation, unless it is a genuinely useful and acceptable
solution to a real problem. Our times, unlike the era of the
Gileadites, do not deem mispronunciation a capital offence.
Classicists should be willing to help if they are asked but have no
proprietary rights over the functional idiolect of modern scientific
Latin whose users can use whatever pronunciation they find conducive
to communication."

CDC: Cicero and Burkholderia cepacia: What?s in a Name?
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no4/02-0700.htm

In case my own view is of interest, I tend to use a "long i" sound (as
in the word "idol") for most Latin-based words that end in -ae. I
settled upon this pronunciation because it was the pronunciation used
by a humanities professor whom I admired and emulated when I was in
college in the 1960s. The professor was not quite old enough to have
been a native speaker of classical Latin, but almost. ;-)

In scientific and medical circles, I think you'll hear these words
more often pronounced with a "long i" in the UK, and more often with a
"long a" or "long e" in the United States. If the speaker is
relatively consistent in usage, and if the singular form of a word
such as "antenna" can be clearly distinguished from the plural form
("antennae"), I do not think any one of these pronunciations can be
considered superior to any other.

My Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: latin "pronunciation of ae"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=latin+%22pronunciation+of+ae%22

Google Web Search: "latin pronunciation" ae
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22latin+pronunciation%22+ae%22

Google Web Search: pronunciation "diphthong ae"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pronunciation+%22diphthong+ae%22

Google Web Search: pronunciation OR pronounced "terminal ae"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pronunciation+OR+pronounced+%22terminal+ae%22

Google Web Search: pronunciation OR pronounced "ending in ae"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pronunciation+OR+pronounced+%22ending+in+ae%22

I hope this is helpful. If anything further is needed, please don't
hesitate to request clarification.

Best regards,
pinkfreud

Absolutely fascinating information, Pink.  It will take me a while to
assimilate it. I could not have done this on my own. You are a very
good researcher. In the 21st cwntury we have culture wars that have
gone on for centuries regarding Latin pronunciation, with no clear
winners except for the philologists.

I'm going to pronounce my Latin exactly the way is sounds best to me,
and now I don't have to worry about public humiliation from famous
scholars at Oxford, Harvard or MIT. This extremely fluid situation
really calls for more study by liguists.  It's hard to think of a
similar situation, even in popular culture, where the pronunciation is
so variable and so non-standardized.

I would regard it as a great favor if you could share any additional
information you come across in your future studies.  I will also post
any details I might encounter.  But for now, thanks for the superb
analysis, thanks for your interest, and thanks very much for your
time.

Banach

This the American english pronunciation (I would imagine that if
properly pronounced, it would be pronounced the same everywhere since
it is latin derived.  I could be very wrong about that though.)...

It can be pronounced 2 different ways (and is in most cases acceptable as either).

pronounced as a long "E" as in the word bee or sea
or
pronounced as a long "I" as in the word by or try


If you go to http://www.m-w.com/ you can hear a lovely robot voice say
words to you.  Vitae and larvae are the sample words I used
(pneumoniae wasn't found in merriam webster online or at
dictionary.com).

I'm actually more interested in the last two.  "Vitae" (Latin "wee-tI"
with a long I) is just another example.  There should be one, and only
one, preferred pronunciation.  I'd like to know what it is, together
with the Authority who says so.  Thanks.

I am fascinated by language and rules of pronunciation, and I'd be
glad to take on this project. However, my preliminary research
indicates that there really isn't "one, and only one, preferred
pronunciation" of words that end in -ae. I can point you toward
various discussions of the matter, and I can quote unabridged
dictionaries which are generally regarded as authoritative, but I have
found no consensus regarding a single "correct" pronunciation, either
in English or in Latin.

That's why this is a difficult question.  For example, one hears
"pneumoniae"  (as in "Strep. pneumoniae" pronounced "pneumon-ee-I"
(long "I"),  "pneumon-ee-A" (long "A"), and sometimes even
"pneumon-ee-ee" or "pneumon-ee-ah." Surely there must be a good reason
to prefer one pronunciation over another.  In technical fields,
language should be prescriptive, not descriptive, because precision
here is at a premium.

The diphthong "ae" may have a context-sensitive pronunciation, as in
the examples "-iae" and "-eae."  I don't know.

One good reason to prefer one pronunciation over another would be the
official Latin pronunciation.  Since nobody knows how the Romans
actually spoke, the authority would be Modern Classical Latin
(whatever that is; it surely must be codified).  Another good reason
would be that there is a standard English (or American, or British)
pronunciation (like "Caesar," not "KI-sahr).

If you can suggest a single best pronunciation of my words, along with
a good reason, I will be very grateful.  This has bothered me for some
time now.

My research, as I mentioned, led to multiple acceptable
pronunciations, no one of which has been designated as the preferred
usage. I hope another Researcher will be able to find what you need.

You may be interested in this discussion of the pronunciation of
scientific terms which end in -ae:

http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ftopic1310.html

This article (a link to which was posted in the forum thread mentioned
above) makes a good point, I think:

"Classicists should be willing to help if they are asked but have no
proprietary rights over the functional idiolect of modern scientific
Latin whose users can use whatever pronunciation they find conducive
to communication."

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no4/02-0700.htm

Those links come very close to providing an Answer, pinkfreud. 
Michael Covington's chart of four different ways to pronounce Latin
(Reconstructed Ancient pronunciation, Continental pronunciation
(roughly at the time of Linnaeus, and "Recommended for Scientific
Use"), Church Latin and English Method) at least defines the problem. 
According to this chart, "pneumoniae" ends in "ee-ay" (long "A"), a
common pronunciation, whereas "ee-ee" (another common pronunciation)
is simply wrong.  The variant "ee-eye" (long "I," which is
occasionally heard) is the Reconstructed Ancient pronunciation,
correct in its own way although rather pedantic and more
characteristic of British English than American English.

It was interesting to learn that we actually do know how the Romans
pronounced words, by studying, for example, spelling errors,
translations into other languages, and poetry.

Is Michael Covington really an Authority?  This leads into areas of
scholarship which lie far beyond the original question.  For the
moment I'm happy to have fixed in my mind that the best pronunciation
of "-ae" in the context of classical taxonomony (not English words
like "Caesar" or "Vitae") is long "A."

Thanks.  I think you answered the question.

Banach,

Thank you very much for the kind words, the five stars, and the
generous tip. I found this to be a fascinating subject to investigate.
If I come across any additional reading matter that I think you'll
find interesting, I'll post the info here. When a new comment or
clarification is posted, you should receive an email notice.

Best,
Pink