In relation to the amount the US is donating to the tsunami relief
effort, someone I know made these statements:

"The war in Iraq is costing the U.S. $35 million every 7 hours."

"As one Democratic congressman said recently: "We spend $35 million
before breakfast in Iraq."

Is this true?   Who was the Democratic congressman?

Thankfully the US has increased it's aid tenfold as of today; still,
if this is true, these numbers sort of put things in perspective.

The statement which you've quoted was made by Senator Patrick J.
Leahy, of Vermont. The statement is probably true: some estimates say
that the United States spends about $5 million an hour in Iraq, so in
the period from midnight to 7 a.m. (breakfast time for many), $35
million would have been spent. Other estimates put the hourly cost of
the Iraq war even higher.

"And there are already signs that Democrats want to link the response
to this disaster to spending in Iraq. 'I just about went through the
roof when I heard them bragging about $35 million,' Senator Patrick J.
Leahy, the Vermont Democrat and a persistent critic of how the
American rebuilding operation has gone in Iraq. 'We spend $35 million
before breakfast in Iraq.'

Speaking by telephone from his home in Vermont, Mr. Leahy, who is the
ranking Democrat on the foreign operations subcommittee of the Senate
Appropriations Committee, urged that a portion of the largely unspent
$18 billion for Iraq reconstruction be re-directed for Asian relief
efforts."

The New York Times: It's About Aid, and an Image
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/international/worldspecial4/30prexy.html

"But critics noted that the U.S. aid so far is about the equivalent of
what the United States spends in seven hours for its military
operations in Iraq. 'We spend $35 million before breakfast every day
in Iraq,' said Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), a member of the Senate
Appropriations Committee."

The Washington Post: Bush Says America Will Lead Global Relief Effort
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33290-2004Dec29.html

"The Bush administration is spending $5 million an hour for the war on Iraq."

ABS-CBN News: Protesters call for end to Iraq occupation
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?section=FOCUS&oid=48802

"Organizers calculated the war's cost as of Wednesday [August 25,
2004] at $134.5 billion and are adding $177 million per day, which
comes to $7.4 million per hour or $122,820 per minute."

USA Today: Clock in NYC shows cost of Iraq war
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-26-iraq-war-clock_x.htm

Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: "$35 million before breakfast" 
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22%2435+million+before+breakfast

Google News Search: "$35 million before breakfast" 
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22%2435+million+before+breakfast%22+&btnG=Search+News

Google Web Search: "million an OR per OR each hour" iraq
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22million+an+OR+per+OR+each+hour%22+iraq

Best,
Pink

excellent as always, thank you, Pink . . . and may the New Year be good to you . . .

The comparison is unfair.

The expenditure in Iraq is an investment that will be recovered from
oil revenues ...

:)   hmmm, yes . . . what could we possibly 'recover' from ten
insignificant countries in s.e. asia?

Thank you for the kind words, the five stars, and the nice tip!

~Pink

Probonpublico
  comparison would be unfair IF the future revenue from the new territory
  could be guaranteed. History shows that return on these investments
is  uncertain.
 Some 200 years Great Britain poured huge amount of money into hiring
mercenaries and sending ships to the colonies, tried to impose order,
rule of law  and to collect some taxes to cover their costs ..
Specificaly, in 1768
In May, a British warship armed with 50 cannons sails into Boston
harbor after a call for help from custom commissioners who are
constantly being harassed by Boston agitators. .. After threats of
violence from Bostonians, the customs officials escape to an island
off Boston, then request the intervention of British troops.
http://theamericanrevolution.org/hevents.asp

  UK almost went bankrupt over the cost of colonial war and never recouped it's
 invetment. Colonist were ungrateful and proved themself to be ungovernable...

It was  bad investment and it took years to extricate the country from
that war, to develop friendship and colaboration and find road to
mutual prosperity by peaceful trade ..

Of course, there's a risk, Hedgie, and not all investments pay off but
you don't know until you've tried.

Look at Enron! (Better not)

But gambling with other people's money is always a great option.

"But gambling with other people's money is always a great option"

   Very true mikomoro, it is a favorite occupation for people who
  would never succeed in business using just their own money ..

Hedgie

Someone made a comment that money spent in Iraq is an investment, and
money spent in Asia for the Tsunami victims is not. I understand where
you are coming from, but the money we spend in Southeast Asia to help
these victims will produce a return on investment, in terms of:

1) Maintaining our ability to have principled negotiations in the
future, asserting Americas consistent (and never failing) willingness
to play a large role in the world community

2) Keeping the economy in Southeast Asia from falling even more (those
economies effect some of our trading partners, which we need to keep
our dollar strong)

3) Keeping the governments in Southeast asia (even those that are
dismal) from collapsing. We all know what happens when governments are
weak and corrupt... they become safe havens for terrorism. And i'm
sure there are terrorist cells in those countries as well. Not to
stereotype, but Sri Lanka has a population composed of 8% Islamic
people. This same country, as desperate as they are, just turned down
aid from Israel. If this country falls even more, it can deffinately
become a terrorist problem.

Things... they are not always as they seem. But aid for Tsunami
victims is a very good investment. Interesting how President Bush just
increased US aid from $35 million to $350 million (probably because
countries like Spain, France, and Britain were outspending us). Not
Germany though, they are barely doing anything considering the wealth
they have.

TimeSpace wrote :-

<quote>
:)   hmmm, yes . . . what could we possibly 'recover' from ten
insignificant countries in s.e. asia?
<quote>

Actually, things are a bit more interesting than they appear on the surface.

The major 'disaster area' is Northern Sumatra, where formerly
unbeknown to me, the Indonesian government has long been having a few
domestic problems.

The Indonesians would probably not mind the 'Omanification' of a
troublesome area, especially if a blind eye (or helping hand) were
turned towards other potentially embarrassing problems.

Right now I reckon the Indonesian Government is working out just how
safe it is to deal with the USA, after all the US has a pretty good
record for commitment in South America - actually the US is not bad at
propping up regimes, it just gets a bit lost when it comes to
replacing them.

Indonesia is a bit of a problem in itself, there is one heck of a lot
of Indonesians and they seem to think that they are Muslims. Also they
have been looking at Australia with distinct interest for some time.

On balance a nice little sweetheart deal between Indonesia and the USA
would probably be a good idea all round. That way the next time
Indonesia has a rebellion they can ask for a US aircraft carrier to
bomb the sh*t out of the culprits. It would also save them having to
buy our (UK) rather cruddy Hawk trainer aircraft - and all the
inconveniences of modifying them.

Oddly, I actually approve.

Moving North we meet the next most 'distressed' nation, Ceylon ... or
now they call it something else.  Something makes me think that they
are also playing to the gallery.
Those Tamil Tiggers have long been an irritant, actually a real PITA
Some good solid 'aid' delivered by Singalese troops could sort out
that little nest once and for all.

Thailand seems to be 'business as usual', India is doing its own
thing, Burma is keeping quiet (good candidates for a charm offensive
there), the Maldives got totally swamped, but seem remarkably
unscathed.

There is, of course, the interesting case of Somalia that lost 800
fishermen, probably not worth dissecting the plausibility of that
guestimate.

Synopsis
- a rather nasty tectonic plate shift, and US warships will be moored
off two long running trouble spots, much to the delight of the local
Governments.

Meanwhile a load of dickheads will be knitting socks and sending cash
to a bunch of people who don't want socks and will never get the cash
because it will be nicked en route (fortunately otherwise it would
screw the local economy)

Curiously, the results will probably be beneficial
- the demolition of two nests of malcontents
(I would just love to run a geiger counter round North West Sumatra)

Striking a few cynical notes:

How much of those pledges will be delivered?

How much of the pledges delivered will have price tags, like the $$$
have to be spent with 'us'?

And, as FRDE has noted, how much will get siphoned off by corrupt officials?

But the really frightening thing is that it could happen again.

Aren't we getting a bit too cynical here?

Lot a aid is direct help, of supplies and expert, medical teams and supplies

Not all though:
http://www.michaelbuffington.com/archives/2004/12/relief_funds_co.html

Best contribution US can do, would be to help to  extend the Tsunami warning
system, which operates in the Pacific ocean
http://www.geophys.washington.edu/tsunami/general/warning/warning.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Science/Lack-of-warning-system-cost-lives/2004/12/27/1103996496454.html
to cover the whole world ..



to cover the whole globe. Two hour warning can save lives

 Sunday's tsunami is estimated to have taken two hours to reach Sri Lanka

I certainly agree that extending the early warning system is a good idea.

Ironically, my understanding is that the Pacific seismic monitors did
pick up the tremor, but they did not know /who/ to contact.
Nasty.

Yes an early warning system would be a good idea, but has anyone
thought about the logistics of actually delivering that warning?

Last I looked even at the before pictures, the area is not that
developed. I doubt that there are radios and televisions in every home
given that the average annual salary is around $300/year down from
$800/year in 1997.
http://www.newint.org/issue318/facts.htm

One island in particular, the closest one to the epicenter in fact,
lost very few people due to the tradition of running to the hills
after feeling an earthquake.

Perhaps instead of an early warning system, people should use a little
common sense and move inland after feeling a large earthquake
especially if they live in a coastal area.

flajason-ga on 02 Jan 2005 09:46 PST wrote

  "..Yes an early warning system would be a good idea, but has anyone
thought about the logistics of actually delivering that warning?
... the area is not that developed. I doubt that there are radios and
televisions in every home..."

True - it is udeveloped and poor area, no radios or even phones and
that actually suggests an solution: US is behind in use of cell-phones
(or mobiles) beacuse it has well developed  infrastructure. In
countries of New Europe, as an example, everyone has a mobile since
fixed-lines were not available (New Europe is of course only 'new' to
Mr. Rumfeld; natives lived there for thousands of years, same as
natives in the 'New world' :-)
So, the 'smart mob' (people who stage happenings using mobiles) came
with an idea of using mobile networks, bypassing the government-run
ceters:
"While this kind of centralized structure is effective when it works,
it is open to the single-point-of-failure problem witnessed this week.
If the emergency authority is not available, there's nowhere to
turn..."
http://www.smartmobs.com/archive/2004/12/29/the_tsunami_nex.html

It is sort of the original idea behind the Internet (as an emergency network)
and can be well combined with todays WiFi and other wireless net technologies.

All it needs is one (old) mobile per village, resort or hotel and arrangement
by which people operating satllites (US?) and mobile operators can
connect and decide when to broadcast a warning signal.

Broadcast to all. Well -OK - it would also help to add an alert
function to the mobiles:
When an SMS message is flaged as EmergencyWarningAlert, mobil would
recieve it even  when switched off - - without regard to the phone
number (it is an broadcast) and then, it would beep every 5 minutes
until someone reads the message. I do not think that mobile have this
EWA feature now, but could be useful even in developed areas - like
when hiking in a national park..

What do you think??

Hedgie

Let's not forget the hundreds of millions of dollars the US government
will lose due to tax deductions caused by charitable contributions of
the US public.
If you look at the US tax system you'll notice it isn't geared towards
being charitable itself.  It is geared to encourage US citizens to be
charitable (thus better encouraging a free market).  Notice that taxes
throughout Europe the average taxes are nearly 50% whereas in the US
the average is closer to 35% (including federal, medicare, social
security, state).  Of course the European governments will appear more
charitable than the US government, but are they really?  I'd love to
see the total amount that individuals/businesses in the US give to the
tsunami efforts in Asia/Africa.  I'd be willing to bet that the amount
of taxes that the US loses due to the tax deductions will put the US
way out in front of any other nation when it comes to giving to the
efforts as a proportion of GDP.

jack  _of_few_trades

You say:

"..I'd be willing to bet .. will put the US way out in front .."

How much are you willing to bet?


Just cursory look on private giving does not look like US is ahead:
Britain's Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) said it had collected
the equivalent of $39 million,

The American Red Cross  collected $18 million. 

Finns  The country of just 5 million people quickly raised $4 million. 
....
.....
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20041230/wr_nm/quake_donations_dc


Italians raised $17 million by sending special text messages on the

Hedgie

I think that you will find the use of mobiles far more widespread than
you expect - even in Indonesia. It is an insidious technology (in all
senses of the word).

The problem with any mass signalling device is that it is open to
abuse, as inadvertantly happened with 'The War of the Worlds'
broadcast.

Changing subject slightly, it is virtually impossible to estimate the
number of dead - since in Sumatra and Tamil held Ceylon there is:
a) no initial population figure 
b) no incentive for the survivors to be remotely truthful

Listening to the BBC World Service I have hear the death toll in Tamil
held Ceylon move from 5000 to 1200 to 30,000
While the devastation in Sumatra sounds appalling, one has really no
idea what really happened.

Slinging cash at these people will simply provide some kleptocrats
with fat Swiss bank accounts, and convert large chunks of formerly
(primitively) self sufficient people into assiduous believers in the
'Cargo Cult'

Stories of aircraft full of bottled water make one doubt ones ears,
while things like the the sole Northern Sumatran airport being put out
of action by a cow on the runway, or the aircraft landing in Southern
Sumatra and receiving a demand for Customs Duties ... ring all too
true.

I suppose in some ways I would prefer to waste money on 'Aid' rather
than munitions in Iraq, but given a clear choice, I would opt for
neither.

Fury of elements, natural catastrophies
 tend to bring humans together,
 stimulates them to cooperate, rather then to fight each other.
 Tsunami brought to the focus the question
 which half of the US was already asking;
 How do we relate to the rest of the world?
 How does the world perceive us?


Is it:
For Mercy has a human heart
Pity, a human face:
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.
...
And all must love the human form,
In heathen, turk or jew.
Where Mercy, Love and Pity dwell
There God is dwelling too.

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj62/cox.htm

or is it:
Cruelty has a human heart,
 And Jealousy a human face;
 Terror the human form divine,
 And Secrecy the human dress...
 
http://users.compaqnet.be/cn127848/blake/collected/chap-04.html

 The cow on the runaway, kleptokrats, 
 are significant details, 
 but not a convincing argument
 for either view

3000 people dead, and its a "world tragedy" and anyone even dare
suggesting America brought it upon itself is "with them".
150,000 people dead. and America is asking itself whether 350 million
is way too much.

If there's one thing America's been consistent at, in foreign policy
i.e., its at being a "fair-weather" friend except in case of
"white/western" nations.

Not to mention the scientists who say they didnt know whom to inform. 

so much for the world's only superpower.

Information on funds received by the American Red Cross:
From December 26, 2004, through January 5, 2005, more than $103.2
million has been raised.
http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease/0,1077,0_314_3882,00.html

The American Red Cross does appear to be the largest public receiver
of tsunami relief funds, however there are literally tens of thousands
of non-proffit groups, churches, communities. . .  in the US that have
been and continue to collect funds for the relief effort.  I would not
be suprised at all to see the total figure to be well over $1B for US
charitable giving specifically for the tsunami relief.

If you can show that $1B is unreasonable to expect (given that 1
organization out of many thousands) in less than 2 weeks raised more
than 10% of that) or that $1.35B (the $1B + $350M from the govt) is
not the largest giving from any country in the world (even considering
the economic conditions of various countries) then I'd like to know
what information you're looking at.

Private donations in the US will far surpass whatever the Govt gives,
as it should.  The federal Govt in the US should use our tax dollars
for some very specific things.  The American public should willingly
shell out donations to help in disasters like this.  Americans and
Western Europeans spend tens of billions of dollars on makeup and pet
supplies so a few billion dollars to help our fellow man in time of
trouble is the least we can do.

And now the scams ...

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/jan05/tsunamiscam010505.htm

god, is there no bottom to the depths some people will stoop to?

BTW (for US citizens)  I just came across this paragraph on the Save
the Children website:

quote <UPDATE:  End-Of-Year-Tax Note:  All gifts for tsunami disaster
relief made prior to January 31, 2005 may be claimed as federal tax
deductions in tax year 2004. Your email donation confirmation can
serve as your receipt.> endquote

http://www.savethechildren.org/radio_asia_earthquake.asp?StationPub=hp_radio_asia_earthq&ArticleID=&NewsID

ts

The private donations have indeed reached a respectable level,
but one thing which US , and probably only US government can do well,
is to lead international effort to  use  existing satellite networks to
1) Detect a possible disaster 2) have experts diagnose it ( false alarm avoidance) 
3) Order direct BROADCAST form the satellites to many relay towers and mobiles

It does not need dialers, roaming, and regional/national emergency centers
which are expensive and may malfunction/goof off and cost  millions
in extra infrastructure as discussed here:

At least five countries have begun developing an alert system using
cell phone text messages, a response to the catastrophic Asian tsunami
that exposed flaws in present-day early warning schemes
http://asia.cnet.com/news/communications/0,39037080,39212474,00.htm 
 
 Since disaster is a rare event, satellites can be programmed
to send an EXTRA STRONG PULSE, an alert directly to anyone and
anything in the given area
able to recieve it.
A short code meaning: read your SMS, turn on radio, .. whatever you have..
invetigate and alert neighbours of possible danger --all that directly
on each local level.

It would need some universal Alert Code  - like EWA mentioned above
built in mobiles and relay towers, since people do not monitor their
SMS messages continuously.

I wonder if Nokia and other wireless giants announced some plans?

It looks like US and UN is working on it:

US plans global tsunami warning system 
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2005/01/06/story183439.html


After reviewing data from four Earth-orbiting radar satellites, NOAA
scientists today announced they were able to measure the height of the
devastating tsunami that erupted in the Indian Ocean.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=15880


The Bush administration says it wants it done, and Sen. Joe Lieberman,
D-Conn., also is proposing legislation for the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration to set up a worldwide network of buoy-based
sensors linked to satellites.
http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/opedstory0112WWAVES.htm

`The technical aspects are already in place,'' Salvano Briceno, the UN
director of disaster reduction strategy, said in a telephone interview
from Geneva. ``What is missing is a network of contacts and
authorities at the national level to evaluate information and
prepare..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a_P_.qIaXuMQ&refer=top_world_news

WASHINGTON: President George W Bush is drawing heat over a $40m
splurge on inaugural balls, concerts and candlelight dinners while the
country is in a sombre mood because of the Iraq war and
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/993103.cmsian tsunami.