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Q: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals ( No Answer,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals
Category: Science > Physics
Asked by: carlpdt236-ga
List Price: $3.00
Posted: 05 Jan 2005 10:13 PST
Expires: 04 Feb 2005 10:13 PST
Question ID: 452419
I am currently involved in a senior engineering project at my school. 
The project involves various metals and the magnetic and electrical
properties of those metals.  We are currently using modeling software
to determine shapes and strengths of magnetic fields around the parts.

To complete the modeling we need certain graphs/curves for all metals involved.

The metals that we are using are:
Stainless Steel 410, Stainless Steel 416, and Stainless Steel 430F,
1117 Steel, 1215 Steel, and 12L14 Steel.

What I have been looking for for about a week now are the Induction
(B) vs. External Magnetic Field (H) graphs for the materials listed
above.  These are sometimes referred to as BH diagrams.  Induction can
also be referred to as Flux Density (I believe).

I need to know where I can find the curves/graphs for the materials
above.  A graph with specific data points rather than a generalized
line is needed.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals
From: guzzi-ga on 05 Jan 2005 19:30 PST
 
?Magnetics? is a branch of electrics / electronics which even many
experienced designers shy away from. I don?t say ?material
engineering? or metallurgy because the magnetic characteristics of
materials are primarily the province of electrics / electronics.

Before you embark upon this, it would be wise to try to get to grips
with the fundamentals of the discipline. There are many terms which
you really should familiarise yourself with otherwise you may be
mislead by the data. There is unfortunately a slight shortage of books
which explain in clear terms but there is good info on the web. BH
curves are also known as hysteresis loops, for reasons which hopefully
will become clear to you after a bit of research.

Don?t want to discourage you, quite the contrary, so good
experimenting. I might get back to you with graphs if no one else
does.

Best
Subject: Re: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals
From: pugwashjw-ga on 05 Jan 2005 22:22 PST
 
This may or may not be of some help, but look up in your library or
contact companies extracting mineral sands. The machines they  use to
process the naturally occurring sands use both electrical and magnetic
separation. The ores are ilmenite, rutile,zircon, monazite and
zenotime.
Subject: Re: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals
From: hedgie-ga on 05 Jan 2005 22:42 PST
 
Perhaps contacting a suplier sales office would produce sama data sheets
http://www.mceproducts.com/knowledge/knowledgedt.asp?id=18
Subject: Re: Magnetic Properties of Various Metals
From: guzzi-ga on 06 Jan 2005 18:29 PST
 
I did a bit of web-hunting but couldn?t find direct links to your
required information. As ?hedgie? says, contacting sites such as the
one he refers to is possibly your best route. Couple of other links
which were informative :-

http://www.key-to-steel.com/
http://www.matweb.com/index.asp?ckck=1

.....and a pdf cross-referencing ss grades :- 

http://isaksen.home.cern.ch/isaksen/cern/papers/stainless-steel-info.pdf

The problem you will have with the modelling software (finite element
one presumes) is that unless you have a dynamic library for the
materials, results will be at best misleading. Permeability is never
linear, so the BH takes the form of a loop, flattening out at the
onset of saturation. In complete saturation the relative permeability
(not absolute permeability) is unity. Results depend upon field
strength, the previous magnetisation and even the shape of the
material which was tested. If you test a bar with a magnetising coil
round it, the results are very different to that of a toroid. With a
bar, the air path stores the bulk of the field energy, though similar
results to a toroid can be obtained by closing the magnetic loop with
a suitable high permeability material. Then there is the frequency to
be considered. The broader the loop, the greater the hysteresis loss
-- and that is aside from eddy current loss which is also a complex
affair. BH is dynamic, therefore usually AC or at least fluctuating.

In the light of all the complications, I would suggest perhaps you
limit yourself to slightly less ambitious undertakings. You say you
would be happy with point data. That?s fine up to a point (sorry) but
the dynamic nature relies upon what preceded. Remember, BH is a loop.

Sorry for perhaps sounding so negative. That?s not my intent. Merely
sketching the monumental task which you have set yourself if you want
to present meaningful information. Add a comment if you think I (or
others) can add further confusion :-)

Best

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