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Q: For Answerfinder, please ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: For Answerfinder, please
Category: Computers > Security
Asked by: probonopublico-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 10 Jan 2005 23:10 PST
Expires: 09 Feb 2005 23:10 PST
Question ID: 455396
Hi, AF

I've been tapped for a tv documentary that's going to take a look at the
'Chip & PIN' stuff that's now being 'rolled out' by the banks in the
UK.

I would like to appear amazingly well informed and, with your help, I will.

Naturally, I shall want to debunk any suggestion that the new stuff is
'totally secure' which I see as a ploy for the banks to charge fraud
back to the retailers.

Obviously, a PIN is more secure than a Signature BUT ...

Over to you ...

(There's no great hurry as the prog has not yet been okayed.)

All the Best

Bryan

Request for Question Clarification by answerfinder-ga on 11 Jan 2005 00:43 PST
Bryan,
Thanks for asking for me one this one. I'll start digging and get the
results to you hopefully tommorrow. Is that OK?
answerfinder-ga

Clarification of Question by probonopublico-ga on 11 Jan 2005 02:37 PST
Hi, AF

That's great!

Many thanks.

Bryan
Answer  
Subject: Re: For Answerfinder, please
Answered By: answerfinder-ga on 12 Jan 2005 05:35 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Bryan,
When I first read Chip and Pin, I thought that this was a posh way of
eating your chips along Hove seafront ? unlike we lowly mortals who
use wooden forks to eat their chips with.

Now I fully understand your request, here?s my research on the
subject. If you need anything extra or beefed-up, do ask.

The introduction of C&P means that businesses are liable for card
present signatures for credit or debit card crime. The onus has
shifted from banks to shops if the fraud could have been prevented
using C&P. Losses on C&P is the responsibility of the banks or the
customer.

Similar systems have been underway in France and Holland for some
years, but not to the standard that is being undertaken in the UK.
These are the new global specifications known as EMV
(Europay/MasterCard and Visa). Reports indicate fraud dropped in these
two countries upon introduction of a similar C&P system.

I have found that the main concerns with new system are:

Cards not being introduced fast enough which leaves businesses having
to decide whether to accept signatures with the accompanying
liability.
Security of the PIN during the transaction. 
Increased risk of theft from person.
Bogus retail outlets will continue to skim cards and then continue the
fraud abroad or at ATMs.
Card not present fraud will increase.
Card holder?s liability: removal of the signature leaves the card
holder in a difficult position when challenging apparent bogus
purchases.

These sites provide detailed information on the new system with facts
and figures. You will need to dig deep into each site as there is too
much information to post here:

Credit Card Watch published by APACS.  31 pages of facts and figures
on credit card fraud for 2004. Mentions C&P.
http://www.cardwatch.org.uk/pdf_files/cardfraudfacts2004.pdf

Site created specially for information on C&P. Advice for consumers
and business ? lots of information particularly the reference library.
http://www.chipandpin.org.uk/
This is a report of a trial in Northampton. Some of the concerns
mentioned above are detailed.
http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/reflib/northampton_trial_report.pdf

Useful guide for businesses on the technology involved in C&P.
http://www.tridentinfotec.co.uk/chip&pin/

EMV specifications (very detailed and technical). The UK is one of the
first countries to introduce chips on cards which meet new global
specifications known as EMV (Europay/MasterCard and Visa)
http://www.emvco.com/

UK?s Crime Reduction pages ? ?A similar domestic PIN based system in
France has seen an 80% fall in fraud since it came in ten years ago.?
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/business29.htm


That gives the background information. The main criticism is voiced by
Professor Ross Anderson , of Cambridge University. He has given
several statements to the press and these will be detailed below with
other news reports with quotes by spokespersons from other interested
associations and bodies.

Professor Ross Anderson?s - home page. His areas of research may interest you.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/

On his blog page he writes:
"19th December 2004 - There has been growing media interest in the
security of the chip cards being introduced by UK banks. There are
many problems. First, the banks are using the exercise to dump
liability for fraud on to merchants and customers. This will undermine
security by removing the incentives for banks to maintain the system
properly. Next, there are technical security problems, both with the
chip cards and with the back-end systems that support them. Finally,
the transition from mag strip to chip is being poorly managed. The
banks are training their customers to use PINs everywhere, so rogue
merchants can use false terminals to harvest PIN and mag-strip data -
cloned cards can then be used in ATMs overseas. This is a regulatory
failure; the government must hold banks liable for their system
security failures.."
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/blog04.html
He makes links to these two documents.
http://www.ftp.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/SISW02.pdf
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mkb23/research/API-Attacks.pdf

Further comments on another page from his site.
PIN vs. Signature and Liability ? safer for a signature
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mkb23/media-coverage.html

Anderson discusses his fears in this Guardian article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1336570,00.html

Other relevant news articles:
Scotsman 
http://news.scotsman.com/features.cfm?id=8972005

Register 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/20/pin_security_warning/

BBC 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4108433.stm

Evening Telegraph
http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2005/01/05/story6690509t0.shtm

Belfast Telegraph
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business_telegraph/story.jsp?story=599511

Daily Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/01/11/cnchip11.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/01/11/ixcity.html

Scotsman
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3942784

Daily Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/18/nchip18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/12/18/ixnewstop.html

These message boards reveal some interesting comments from overseas
users. Most UK comments are on the bad design of the machine and
security of the PIN.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4098331.stm
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/01/easytoremember_1.html


Finally, I?m going to add my three-penneth from my experience. Years
ago we were told that signatures on the back of credit cards would
solve the fraud. The fraudsters soon learnt how to remove the
signature with chemicals. Next came skimming and counterfeit cards.
Then ATMs were tampered with - see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157214.stm
Now we are told C&P is tamperproof. Tell me that in 5-10 years? time.
Fraudsters will find the way ? if only they put their brains to
legitimate business, they would do so well.

Once again, let me know if you need anything else.

answerfinder-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by probonopublico-ga on 12 Jan 2005 09:26 PST
Hi, AF

Not and RAC (or even a AA) ...

Just a big thanks for an excellent survey.

I will digest later before doing the necessary.

Just one point ...

Is it my imagination or are you getting better than ever?

Get back to you later.

All the Best

Bryan

Clarification of Answer by answerfinder-ga on 13 Jan 2005 02:43 PST
Bryan,
Thank you for your generous tip and the galaxy of stars. Pleased, as
always, to assist you.
answerfinder-ga
probonopublico-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
Hi AF

I feel embarrassed at only being able to award you Five Twinklies on
the Official Scorecard, so here are a few more
*****************************

Much appreciated!

Bryan

Comments  
Subject: Re: For Answerfinder, please
From: frde-ga on 12 Jan 2005 06:05 PST
 
Bryan,

Your gut instinct about Chip'n'Pin is the same as my own.

Here are some disjointed rants :-

In essence there will be tens of thousands of 'hole in the wall'
machines capable of collecting enough information to 'rape' a bank
account.

We are already aware that a few fake Cash machines have been
installed, we know about 'shoulder surfing', also about 'skimming'.

A sharp eyed pickpocket in a supermarket queue is a low tech
alternative to fiddling with the hardware.

In about 1994 a French restauranteur in Cannes realized that a bunch
of us were very interested in credit card transactions, and showed us
how a French portable credit card reader with a PIN would reveal the
supposedly secret number if one pressed a certain button. I expect
that bug has been long sorted by now, but I often wonder how much
embarrassment it created for the French banking system.

Rather a long time ago an Arab state decided it wanted to use credit
cards (well plastic) however the problem was that few people could
sign their own names.
The ingenious solution was a simple verification device that measured
the length and ratio of their fingers.

Very few credit/plastic providers ever put photographs on the cards,
but one that did was the National Provincial - I recall hearing that
their fraud rate rather low.

A couple of years ago I read somewhere that the major players (VISA
and Mastercard) reckoned that the way to sort out mis-use of cards on
the Internet was to 'fine' Itaillers in $10,000 chunks if they
collected bad numbers.

VISA International both refuses dodgy transactions and fines the
clearer if Track2 is not collected - rather a nuisance as the Track2
data is both boring and easily replicable.

Of course the whole thing might be a wheeze to get people to use
Credit rather than Debit cards.
Subject: Re: For Answerfinder, please
From: probonopublico-ga on 12 Jan 2005 09:27 PST
 
Hi, Jerry

Very many thanks for your 'rants' ...

They are much appreciated.

All the Best

Bryan

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