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Q: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing ( No Answer,   8 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: irfeld-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 26 Jul 2002 18:39 PDT
Expires: 25 Aug 2002 18:39 PDT
Question ID: 45647
Greetings,
  A friend of mine asked me to help her identify the object pictured
below, and I said I would try.
Could you possibly give me some idea of what it is?  
  It was given to her by someone who said it is old, and that it came
from Spain.
It is about the size of a table lamp.  That is a yardstick in the
picture with it.  It is hollow and
completely covered with ornate images.  It is silver colored. The
curved things on the sides look
like maybe snakes or dragons.  The thing in the middle looks somewhat
crab-like.
   Below are links to 3 pictures of the thing, including a close-up ot
the center.
  Any information you could give me would be appreciated, or if you
knoiw anyone who might be
able to identify this object, please let me know.  
  Someone suggested that it might be a hooka, but I don't think so. 
It certainly couldn't hold water, and it has no smell. Thank you.
---Stan K. Freeman
http://www2.localaccess.com/sfree/Ophelia1.jpg
http://www2.localaccess.com/sfree/Ophelia2.jpg
http://www2.localaccess.com/sfree/Ophelia3.jpg

Request for Question Clarification by huntsman-ga on 27 Jul 2002 15:40 PDT
Irfeld,

I won't answer this again as I still stand by my original Answer: 

Q: Please help identify big ornate silvery antique 
https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=20158 

However, for the benefit of any other researcher that wants to answer
this time, I have a few follow-up questions:

1. Are you sure that the cylindrical, LifeSaver-shaped section is
*not* a water tank (with just a pierced decorative plate over its
large central opening)?

Try some simple tests:

- Open the lid on top of the large vertical tube. Darken the room and
shine a flashlight down into the tube. Does any light come out through
the large central opening?

- Or do the reverse: shine a flashlight up into the large central
opening. If you open the lid and look down into the tube, do you see
any light?

- Open the lid on top of the central tube. Light a cigarette, take a
drag, and blow smoke into one of the thin tubes coming out of the
dragons'/snakes' mouths. Does any smoke come out of the large central
opening, or does it just come out of the top of the large central
tube?

If no extra light or cigarette smoke comes through the large central
opening (covered by the decorative metal plate), then it seems that
the LifeSaver-shaped portion is indeed a tank.

2. Did you contact any of the online hookah vendors mentioned in my
original answer? What did they say?

Hookah! 
http://www.tierracaliente.com/hookahm.shtml 
 
Hookah On The Net 
http://www.nargila-hookah.com/ 
 
Sahara Smoke Company 
http://www.saharasmoke.com/Hookahs.htm 
 
Commercial Pipe Links 
http://www.pipes.org/~pipes/Pipe.Commercial.html 

Thanks,
Huntsman
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: knowledge_seeker-ga on 26 Jul 2002 18:42 PDT
 
See here for the previous posting of this question --

https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=20158

Just to avoid repeat guesses :-)  -K~
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: pinkfreud-ga on 26 Jul 2002 19:22 PDT
 
I am no expert in antiquities, but your artifact looks to me as if it
might be an old Asian censer (incense burner,) possibly from China.
These were sometimes very large and ornate. I liked the "hookah"
suggestion given by huntsman-ga in your other thread, but the pierced
work in the center (the crab-like medallion) looks to me as if it is
designed to disperse something. Hookahs hold smoke in, while censers
let it out.

Here are links to photos of a couple of large antique Asian censers,
as an example of the sort of thing I mean. Neither resembles yours
very closely in detail, but the general "tower" shape and the ornate
decorations remind me of your piece. The item shown in the second link
was sold for nearly three-quarters of a million dollars, so I would
think a professional, up-close appraisal would be well worth an
investment.

http://www.alexcooper.com/AntiqueAuctions/images/5009.001.jpg

http://www.christies.com/images/departments/sea/sea_ep1.jpg
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: pinkfreud-ga on 26 Jul 2002 19:39 PDT
 
Regarding the absence of an odor, if the object is quite old, one
would not expect it to have retained odors from smoke or incense or
snakes or whatever it was designed to hold. One of my friends has, in
his living room, an "Arguileh," a huge brass hookah-style waterpipe,
that was heavily used in the 1960s for the inhalation of herbal
substances; today it has no smoky smell whatsoever.
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: expertlaw-ga on 26 Jul 2002 21:17 PDT
 
On the bottom, are there any stamps, seals, or other marks that might
have been left by the original manufacturer or artisan?
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: davidsar-ga on 27 Jul 2002 09:05 PDT
 
Stan...I sure hope you find out what this thing is.  I know I'm curious!
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: expertlaw-ga on 28 Jul 2002 10:34 PDT
 
I can think of a another test to see if it could hold water: Pour
water into it. If it gushes out the front, it can't hold water. ;-)

Something not previously addressed - are the front and back the same?
If the back is not decorated, it suggests that the back was likely
meant to face away from people viewing the item. This may be a design
based upon a functional item (such at the suggested hookah), but meant
to be purely decorative (and thus constructed in a non-functional
manner).

I think huntsman-ga is correct in suggesting that the base and body of
the "thing" are of different metals. But that doesn't mean that the
base was not part of the original design and manufacture. The base
appears to be cast. The body appears to have been produced by
hammering a thin sheet of metal over a form. The difference in metals
may not have been apparent, at least initially, if the whole piece was
subsequently plated.
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: huntsman-ga on 29 Jul 2002 10:11 PDT
 
Regarding a water test vs. light or smoke: I was trying to think of a
non-invasive test that would not harm the item in any way. There's no
telling what type of corrosion might exist on the interior of this
piece, and you certainly wouldn't want to aggravate it.

Huntsman
Subject: Re: Please help identify big ornate silvery thing
From: expertlaw-ga on 29 Jul 2002 21:59 PDT
 
That's the difference between your suggestion and mine. You were being
helpful, whereas I was being a smarta**. ;-)

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