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Subject:
What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
Category: Arts and Entertainment Asked by: rae80105-ga List Price: $50.00 |
Posted:
28 Jan 2005 12:40 PST
Expires: 27 Feb 2005 12:40 PST Question ID: 464968 |
This is driving me nuts !! What is this called? the glass is 15" diam approx 3" deep with frame, 21" diam. cold painted I think & the frame seems to be a coated dark wood??? Signed FTM (which closely resembles FT MERRILL's signature | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: luntes-ga on 03 Feb 2005 13:04 PST |
Hello, It may be linked to David Lewin's work in glass for FTM Glass Studio: http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/lewin.html http://www.seekersglass.com/artists/lewin/platter_tigereye.htm luntes |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: pafalafa-ga on 03 Feb 2005 18:40 PST |
My son, who is very wise, says it is a flying saucer... pafalafa-ga |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 08 Feb 2005 18:21 PST |
What looks like a plate--really is not at all. In the mid to late 16th century (1756 - 1781), it was fashionable to install this glassware into the ediface of buildings. It quickly became an 'exclusive' flourish to auxillary institutions and buildings owned by society. If you'll notice, the bulbous shape allows the light of the day to showcase the cold-pressed image. In your case, the flowers. However, flowers were not always used for the relief. And let it be known that the fixture was never meant to resemble or become a window. Only through its use in history (as continued today), has it become a type of 'window' fixture at all. What is so fascinating is really the origin of its design. Before the fixture became what it was in the 16th century its beginning is somewhat sordid. On the island of Murano, fabulous glass artisans were in a sense, middle-man slaves. Slavery was not uncommon, especially voluntary servitude during a span of about 480 years in the southern region of europe controlled be Roman authority. These artisans were borne to produce glass--it was their lot in life. However, the lives of some criminals were sent to the island of Murano. It was an agreement between the Roman government and unscrupulous financiers. Those in society that were bad for the Roman government were sentenced to Murano and forced to work for the glass artisans. The valuable artisans created the labwork for the production of glass, while the slaves and those born into it were the labor force. So, it is disputed among historians of Greek and Italian history that between 1100 and 1300 a fledging group of glass artisans escaped from the island. It is estimated that as little as 50-100 men formed a group (or groups) to flee. The idea was that as soon as they reached land, they would split up and follow markers to a zone of safety (presumably away and far from Roman authority). For all intents and purposes, the glass globe effect was to give instructions to those who escaped later how to find refuge. Looking back it is obvious that some fled successfully, however some only to find that the Roman arm of control far surpassed their imagination. Similar glass globe findings such as yours have been unearthed in Greece, Turkey, throughout Italy and found on sunken ships. Reports in the 1980's that several were discovered in south asia turned out to be reproductions of those created in the 16th century and not the authentic pieces from the artists who escaped from the Island of Murano. Any piece (such as yours) with a signature would at best be an original from the 16th century and at worst, a Wal-mart knock-off. The pure pieces from the 10th and 12th centuries were never signed. Those pieces often had the images of sea creatures and the like. Centuries later, the use of flowers and beauty graced the glass globes. For further investigation and intrigue, it is still uncertain how the glass artisans understood to bend light. Ancient findings of the glass (although archaic, but quite beautiful), the light that shines through, is bent. As the sun is setting, the light is bent to give a false sense that the light is brighter--not dimmer. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 08 Feb 2005 21:59 PST |
Well marshalledgar, sounds very impressive. Could you please reveal sources? Also, I am really leaning to the piece being signed by FT Merrill. Even though he was not known as a painter, the resemblence in the forming of the FT and the M are pretty convincing. look at this works by him.. I would love to hear your opinion. http://www.iath.virginia.edu/salem/images/hibbins1.jpg http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductDetailID=70852&Subcatid=&keywords= |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: kriswrite-ga on 09 Feb 2005 03:26 PST |
I do not believe this dates to the 18th century; the style is all wrong for that period. Kriswrite |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Feb 2005 05:41 PST |
I'm in agreement with you kriswrite. Looks late 19th early 2oth to me. Not a chance it's some dime store attempt at just looking old either. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 09 Feb 2005 21:22 PST |
Although F.T. Merrill seems to fit your glass concave dome, it simply is not. The style of your piece in no way corresponds with the mode of work F.T. Merrill is attributed with. Also keep in mind the use of color on your particular piece. Notice also that your particular piece does not contain "clear" glass. Frosting came later and was not discovered during the 10th and 12th centuries. Again, pieces such as the one you have were common in the late 16th century (late 1700's). However, based on the foggy color picture of the image you attached to the question here, it looks as though your piece is a reproduction of work that was created in the 1700's. By no means does it look like a dime-store knock off. I only mentioned that as a worst case scenario. Obviously, however, your concave dome is not an original because originals were never signed and never contained colored reliefs. They were clear (with bubbles and warps). Black tar or pitch was later applied to the glass. Later in the 1700's thick black lacquer was applied to the domes. In my opinion, your piece is a delicate reproduction from early turn of the 20th century. Think late 1890's and early 1900's. Probably no later than 1907. This is based on the prolific salt factories that were in such high demand at the time. Does this help?? |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Feb 2005 22:53 PST |
I didn't think your opinion was that it is dime store at all. OK, here's just some questions from someone that is not knowing of glass-works. Define "frosted" this seems to be solid white glass, and very very thick. I wish I could find at least one reference picture. Any ideas? The reason I was thinking FT Merrill is that 1. there are references of his work being signed FTM only (if I remember correctly it was non-specied art to a friend) but I have found no pictures. 2. date of 1900 fits but the work is so girly. What about the frame, anything I can look for that would help? Here are 3 more close ups <img src="http://tinypic.com/1ows3b"> <img src="http://tinypic.com/1ows2c"> <img src="http://tinypic.com/1owryg"> |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 10 Feb 2005 17:14 PST |
Thank you for supplying the very upclose photos. Let's tackle your first issue of frosted glass. Frosted glass was never intended to give a 'frosted' look. It was first discovered as a technique to disguise poor craftsmanship in glass blowing. Frosting glass was not 'invented' during the 11th and 13th centuries as I stated before. However, it was readily done as a beautifying effect well into the 18th century (1700's). [I misspoke when I gave the dates in my earlier comments] The 1700's is the 18th century. Based on the shine effect on the paint of the wood and the chipping effect, it is my opinion that the wood base is not as old as you think. I am basing this on the fact that the chipping effect is so 'clean and sharp'. This type of cracking is very reminiscent of plasticized (poly-) paints that were created by Dupont technologies and its founding partners in the 1940's. Also, notice the glaze effect. That would have never been possible before with available technologies in the 18th and 19th centuries. Chemistry had not yet evolved to allow for shiny paint. It is my opinion that perhaps the wood frame was added later to your glass piece as two separate entities. As far as F.T.M. I will do some digging. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 10 Feb 2005 18:22 PST |
Found a FT Merrill signed FTM floral water color today. All I got is a pic of the signature. Hopefully the auction house will also forward a photo of the whole piece.(F.B. Hubley & CO) F & T are similar to mine, M is almost exact and the letter spacing is similar. http://tinypic.com/1p9xz7 I agree with the frame because the fit is poor. even with the damage on it however, it is very beautiful. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 12 Feb 2005 18:52 PST |
I did as I promised. And I came up with nothing. I even went so far as to go to a thrift store to see what I could find. Nothing. Sorry. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 13 Feb 2005 08:44 PST |
well marshalledgar I do very much appreciate your efforts & incite. As I stated in the beginning, it's driving me nuts !!! My tastes have always been so eclectic and off the norm, that it's not unusual for me that I can't identify something I've purchased. I have houseful of the obscure :) thanks again! Rae |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: thunkit-ga on 09 Mar 2005 05:36 PST |
Time to burst bubbles. Not so long ago, houses (yours and mine) would have been heated by stoves that burned wood or coal. These needed maintenance, burned through, or get moved out of the house during summer (they stink). The exhaust method for these stoves was a vertical pipe of several feet in length, and then a right angle into the wall where the chimney was located. If you moved the stove, you had a hole in the wall that was unsightly and let in birds. This is a cover for such an exhaust. They came in very nice models like yours for good homes, and very humble ones that looked very much like a tin paper plate. The back of yours looks to have been modified to allow it to be hung on a wall. The concave shape ensures a centered and snug fit. |
Subject:
Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Mar 2005 17:20 PST |
well now..... you don't say? Have you a reference picture of a flue cover this size? I'd love to see it! That would be great. |
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