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Q: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed ( No Answer,   14 Comments )
Question  
Subject: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
Category: Arts and Entertainment
Asked by: rae80105-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 28 Jan 2005 12:40 PST
Expires: 27 Feb 2005 12:40 PST
Question ID: 464968
This is driving me nuts !!  What is this called?  the glass is 15"
diam approx 3" deep with frame, 21" diam.  cold painted I think & the
frame seems to be a coated dark wood???  Signed FTM (which closely
resembles FT MERRILL's signature

Clarification of Question by rae80105-ga on 03 Feb 2005 18:24 PST
I'm not so sure about that because of it's obvious age.  Pictures here this time
<img src="http://tinypic.com/1fin81">

Clarification of Question by rae80105-ga on 03 Feb 2005 18:26 PST
sorry  here's all the pics
 http://tinypic.com/1fhb83 http://tinypic.com/1fhbba
http://tinypic.com/1fin0i http://tinypic.com/1fin81
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Comments  
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: luntes-ga on 03 Feb 2005 13:04 PST
 
Hello,
It may be linked to David Lewin's work in glass for FTM Glass Studio:
http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/lewin.html
http://www.seekersglass.com/artists/lewin/platter_tigereye.htm

luntes
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: pafalafa-ga on 03 Feb 2005 18:40 PST
 
My son, who is very wise, says it is a flying saucer...

pafalafa-ga
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 08 Feb 2005 18:21 PST
 
What looks like a plate--really is not at all.

In the mid to late 16th century (1756 - 1781), it was fashionable to
install this glassware into the ediface of buildings.  It quickly
became an 'exclusive' flourish to auxillary institutions and buildings
owned by society. If you'll notice, the bulbous shape allows the light
of the day to showcase the cold-pressed image.  In your case, the
flowers. However, flowers were not always used for the relief.  And
let it be known that the fixture was never meant to resemble or become
a window.  Only through its use in history (as continued today), has
it become a type of 'window' fixture at all.

What is so fascinating is really the origin of its design.  Before the
fixture became what it was in the 16th century its beginning is
somewhat sordid.  On the island of Murano, fabulous glass artisans
were in a sense, middle-man slaves.  Slavery was not uncommon,
especially voluntary servitude during a span of about 480 years in the
southern region of europe controlled be Roman authority.  These
artisans were borne to produce glass--it was their lot in life. 
However, the lives of some criminals were sent to the island of
Murano.  It was an agreement between the Roman government and
unscrupulous financiers.  Those in society that were bad for the Roman
government were sentenced to Murano and forced to work for the glass
artisans.  The valuable artisans created the labwork for the
production of glass, while the slaves and those born into it were the
labor force.

So, it is disputed among historians of Greek and Italian history that
between 1100 and 1300 a fledging group of glass artisans escaped from
the island.  It is estimated that as little as 50-100 men formed a
group (or groups) to flee.  The idea was that as soon as they reached
land, they would split up and follow markers to a zone of safety
(presumably away and far from Roman authority). For all intents and
purposes, the glass globe effect was to give instructions to those who
escaped later how to find refuge.

Looking back it is obvious that some fled successfully, however some
only to find that the Roman arm of control far surpassed their
imagination.  Similar glass globe findings such as yours have been
unearthed in Greece, Turkey, throughout Italy and found on sunken
ships.  Reports in the 1980's that several were discovered in south
asia turned out to be reproductions of those created in the 16th
century and not the authentic pieces from the artists who escaped from
the Island of Murano.  Any piece (such as yours) with a signature
would at best be an original from the 16th century and at worst, a
Wal-mart knock-off.  The pure pieces from the 10th and 12th centuries
were never signed.  Those pieces often had the images of sea creatures
and the like.  Centuries later, the use of flowers and beauty graced
the glass globes.

For further investigation and intrigue, it is still uncertain how the
glass artisans understood to bend light.  Ancient findings of the
glass (although archaic, but quite beautiful), the light that shines
through, is bent.  As the sun is setting, the light is bent to give a
false sense that the light is brighter--not dimmer.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 08 Feb 2005 21:59 PST
 
Well marshalledgar, sounds very impressive. Could you please reveal
sources?  Also, I am really leaning to the piece being signed by FT
Merrill. Even though he was not known as a painter, the resemblence in
the forming of the FT and the M are pretty convincing. look at this
works by him.. I would love to hear your opinion.  
http://www.iath.virginia.edu/salem/images/hibbins1.jpg

http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductDetailID=70852&Subcatid=&keywords=
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: kriswrite-ga on 09 Feb 2005 03:26 PST
 
I do not believe this dates to the 18th century; the style is all
wrong for that period.

Kriswrite
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Feb 2005 05:41 PST
 
I'm in agreement with you kriswrite. Looks late 19th early 2oth to me.
Not a chance it's some dime store attempt at just looking old either.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 09 Feb 2005 21:22 PST
 
Although F.T. Merrill seems to fit your glass concave dome, it simply
is not.  The style of your piece in no way corresponds with the mode
of work F.T. Merrill is attributed with.  Also keep in mind the use of
color on your particular piece. Notice also that your particular piece
does not contain "clear" glass.  Frosting came later and was not
discovered during the 10th and 12th centuries.

Again, pieces such as the one you have were common in the late 16th
century (late 1700's).  However, based on the foggy color picture of
the image you attached to the question here, it looks as though your
piece is a reproduction of work that was created in the 1700's.  By no
means does it look like a dime-store knock off.  I only mentioned that
as a worst case scenario.  Obviously, however, your concave dome is
not an original because originals were never signed and never
contained colored reliefs.  They were clear (with bubbles and warps). 
Black tar or pitch was later applied to the glass.  Later in the
1700's thick black lacquer was applied to the domes.

In my opinion, your piece is a delicate reproduction from early turn
of the 20th century.  Think late 1890's and early 1900's.  Probably no
later than 1907.  This is based on the prolific salt factories that
were in such high demand at the time.

Does this help??
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Feb 2005 22:53 PST
 
I didn't think your opinion was that it is dime store at all. OK,
here's just some questions from someone that is not knowing of
glass-works.  Define "frosted" this seems to be solid white glass, and
very very thick.  I wish I could find at least one reference picture.
Any ideas?  The reason I was thinking FT Merrill is that 1. there are
references of his work being signed FTM only (if I remember correctly
it was non-specied art to a friend) but I have found no pictures. 2.
date of 1900 fits  but the work is so girly.  What about the frame,
anything I can look for that would help? Here are 3 more close ups 
<img src="http://tinypic.com/1ows3b">  <img
src="http://tinypic.com/1ows2c">
<img src="http://tinypic.com/1owryg">
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 10 Feb 2005 17:14 PST
 
Thank you for supplying the very upclose photos.  Let's tackle your
first issue of frosted glass.

Frosted glass was never intended to give a 'frosted' look.  It was
first discovered as a technique to disguise poor craftsmanship in
glass blowing. Frosting glass was not 'invented' during the 11th and
13th centuries as I stated before.  However, it was readily done as a
beautifying effect well into the 18th century (1700's).  [I misspoke
when I gave the dates in my earlier comments]  The 1700's is the 18th
century.

Based on the shine effect on the paint of the wood and the chipping
effect, it is my opinion that the wood base is not as old as you
think.  I am basing this on the fact that the chipping effect is so
'clean and sharp'.  This type of cracking is very reminiscent of
plasticized (poly-) paints that were created by Dupont technologies
and its founding partners in the 1940's.  Also, notice the glaze
effect.  That would have never been possible before with available
technologies in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Chemistry had not yet
evolved to allow for shiny paint.  It is my opinion that perhaps the
wood frame was added later to your glass piece as two separate
entities.  As far as F.T.M.  I will do some digging.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 10 Feb 2005 18:22 PST
 
Found a FT Merrill signed FTM floral water color today.  All I got is
a pic of the signature.  Hopefully the auction house will also forward
a photo of the whole piece.(F.B. Hubley & CO) F & T are similar to
mine, M is almost exact and the letter spacing is similar.
http://tinypic.com/1p9xz7   I agree with the frame because the fit is
poor.  even with the damage on it however, it is very beautiful.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: marshalledgar-ga on 12 Feb 2005 18:52 PST
 
I did as I promised.  And I came up with nothing.  I even went so far
as to go to a thrift store to see what I could find.  Nothing.

Sorry.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 13 Feb 2005 08:44 PST
 
well marshalledgar I do very much appreciate your efforts & incite. 
As I stated in the beginning, it's driving me nuts !!!  My tastes have
always been so eclectic and off the norm, that it's not unusual for me
that I can't identify something I've purchased.  I have houseful of
the obscure  :)

thanks again!

Rae
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: thunkit-ga on 09 Mar 2005 05:36 PST
 
Time to burst bubbles.  Not so long ago, houses (yours and mine) would
have been heated by stoves that burned wood or coal.  These needed
maintenance, burned through, or get moved out of the house during
summer (they stink). The exhaust method for these stoves was a
vertical pipe of several feet in length, and then a right angle into
the wall where the chimney was located. If you moved the stove, you
had a hole in the wall that was unsightly and let in birds.

This is a cover for such an exhaust.  They came in very nice models
like yours for good homes, and very humble ones that looked very much
like a tin paper plate.

The back of yours looks to have been modified to allow it to be hung
on a wall. The concave shape ensures a centered and snug fit.
Subject: Re: What is this large concave glass thing painted with roses & w/ carved framed
From: rae80105-ga on 09 Mar 2005 17:20 PST
 
well now..... you don't say?  Have you a reference picture of a flue
cover this size? I'd love to see it!  That would be great.

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