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Q: drama and english terms ( No Answer,   19 Comments )
Question  
Subject: drama and english terms
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: cathyt-ga
List Price: $15.00
Posted: 30 Jan 2005 13:49 PST
Expires: 01 Mar 2005 13:49 PST
Question ID: 465940
What is the word or term that is used in drama or literature to
describe when weather is used in a scene or a piece of text to reflect
the mood of the piece. eg rain to show sadness?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: pinkfreud-ga on 30 Jan 2005 16:06 PST
 
I would call this a "meteorological metaphor." I don't think there is
a suitable one-word term for this.

Here's a typical use of "meteorological metaphor":

"Then, like the crazy, end-of-millennium weather that is the play's
meteorological metaphor, this sunny scenario abruptly changes for the
worse."

http://www.singlelane.com/proplay/weather.html
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: pinkfreud-ga on 30 Jan 2005 16:41 PST
 
Hereis another good use of "meteorological metaphor":

"Every base is covered for a run at import: opening in the midst of a
snowy Chicago winter, Road to Perdition even makes a play for the
Oscar caveat of other films set in snowscapes, popular as a shorthand
for credibility since the Coens' 1996 Fargo (and appearing since in
films running the gamut from Ang Lee's brilliant The Ice Storm and
Raimi's A Simple Plan to more uneven fare: Affliction, Snow Falling on
Cedars, The Shipping News, and so on)--but shorthand is all it is,
really (see also: the requisite shot of crossroads and liminal
beaches), and it's not long before rain fills in as the meteorological
metaphor of choice, drenching its characters in baptismal floods when
first Mike Jr. and then Michael confronts the realities of their
respective fathers."

http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/dvdreviews/roadtoperdition.htm
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 30 Jan 2005 23:41 PST
 
I think you're looking for the "pathetic fallacy."

Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: silver777-ga on 31 Jan 2005 05:31 PST
 
Hi Cathy,

Might it be ambience, imagery or foreshadowing? 

Phil
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: scribe-ga on 31 Jan 2005 06:43 PST
 
I agree that this is an instance of the pathetic fallacy, as defined
by John Ruskin:
"
From these ingenious views the step is very easy to a farther opinion,
that it does not much matter what things are in themselves, but only
what they are to us; and that the only real truth of them is their
appearance to, or effect upon, us."

I refer you to:
http://ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/ruskinj/

scribe_ga
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: biophysicist-ga on 31 Jan 2005 06:54 PST
 
I think that cathyt-ga is looking for a specific word for this, and I
think I've seen the word somewhere in the past couple weeks.  (Maybe
in "The Ersatz Elevator" by Lemony Snickett?  Maybe it starts with an
'S'?  Maybe with "syn"?)  Come on, you brilliant researchers.  I'm
sure you can answer this one.
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: rai130-ga on 01 Feb 2005 04:48 PST
 
Pathetic fallacy is the attribution of human traits to nature or
inanimate objects, which is slightly different to what cathyt wants.

There definately is a term, I remember being told about it whilst
studying Brighton Rock.
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: biophysicist-ga on 01 Feb 2005 06:44 PST
 
Here are some terms, probably none of which are what you want.

METONYMY: Using a vaguely suggestive, physical object to embody a more
general idea.
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms_M.html#metonymy_anchor

SYNECDOCHE: A rhetorical trope involving a part of an object
representing the whole, or the whole of an object representing a part.
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms_S.html
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 01 Feb 2005 19:22 PST
 
Rain to show sadness isn't the attribution of human traits to nature?
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: pinkfreud-ga on 01 Feb 2005 19:28 PST
 
As I understand the concept of the pathetic fallacy, it would apply if
there were a statement such as "heaven rained tears," but the simple
use of rain or other weather phenomena as symbols for emotional states
does not seem to me to be an example of the pathetic fallacy.
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: pafalafa-ga on 01 Feb 2005 19:45 PST
 
It's a stretch, but what about....


conceit 
A fanciful poetic image or metaphor that likens one thing to something
else that is seemingly very different. An example of a conceit can be
found in Shakespeare's sonnet ?Shall I compare thee to a summer's
day??
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: silver777-ga on 02 Feb 2005 01:35 PST
 
Hi again guys and girls,

As an understudy to you lot, I'm learning lots here. This is good stuff. 

Tryx ..

For the purpose of discussion I agree with you Pink, because I
understand that Cathy is looking for the OPPOSITE of
"personification". Instead of applying human attributes to an
atmosphere, animal or whatever, she wants the atmosphere to reflect
the mood of the person. Also, isn't the definition of Pathetic Fallacy
something that can't occur. As Rai points out, it's "the attribution
OF human traits TO nature or inanimate objects". Aren't we looking for
the opposite to that? That's why I suggested a scene setting "ambience
or imagery" in my first post.

Please be kind in your response. I'm learning here.

Phil
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 02 Feb 2005 20:36 PST
 
Hi, Phil and all,

I don't think this one can be solved by debate.  I think it's going to
depend on a clarification by cathyt of what she actually meant by
*using* weather in a scene to reflect the mood of the piece.  The way
I interpreted it, it did mean the equivalent of "the heavens wept,"
and so I said pathetic fallacy.  But maybe what she meant was the
equivalent of "It was a dark and stormy night," using weather to *set*
(not reflect) mood--not metaphorically at all, but just
atmospherically.  Until she weighs in with a comment about her intent,
we could just keep going around in circles and not advance our
understanding at all.

Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: silver777-ga on 03 Feb 2005 01:06 PST
 
Hi Tryx,

Thanks for your explanation. Good points you raise. And yes, we need
the instigator back here for clarification. I wonder if she is aware
of the interest she has started!

In my understanding of your words, you may in fact agree with Pink and
I after all. I see that you have distinguished between "set" and
"reflect". Ahaa. And all along I presumed that the reflection was of
the mood of a person, when it may be a reflection of a scene with no
people. Can a scene have a mood without people though? I presume so.
Again - ambience as in atmosphere.

Anyway, I am keen to learn more in my confusion. So, I guess I had
better shut up for now.

And now that I have your attention Tryx, would you pleeeeeease put me
out of my misery? You have been keeping me up late at nights. What was
your meaning of "38.85score - do ye math" ?

Phil
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 03 Feb 2005 09:48 PST
 
Gosh, Phil...I didn't mean to mystify you *that* much.  How much is a
score?  And what's 38.85 times that?  Do ye math.

Tryx
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 03 Feb 2005 09:49 PST
 
And I wonder if cathyt was just talking about "atmosphere."
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: silver777-ga on 04 Feb 2005 02:31 PST
 
Tryx,

Now I feel like a real idiot. Ya know, I like to think that I am
reasonably good with moderate cryptic crosswords. To think that 38.85
might have been the mean temperature measured in celcius for a human
leaves my head now hanging in disgust of my own intelligence. I
promise to write my lines on the blackboard 100 times .. 38.85 X 20 =
777

"Atmosphere". That's all I was trying to say in the first place. "Ambience".

CathyT .. where are you when we need you? 

In fun, Phil
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: kellita-ga on 12 Feb 2005 11:06 PST
 
I stumbled upon this discussion as I was searching for the answer to
this very question. I was delighted to find so much interest and so
many leads to the answer. If this helps to clarify the question, let
me refer to something that I am sure we have all read...When I think
of "using" weather to match or imply the mood of a scene, I think of
King Lear, especially the last act. I know there is a specific term
for this.
Subject: Re: drama and english terms
From: kellita-ga on 13 Feb 2005 13:27 PST
 
I am now in agreement that "pathetic fallacy" is the term that the
questioner was searching for. I found some information that refered to
King Lear and I am now satisfied. Sorry, I don't remember where I
found this.
"Shakespeare?s use of pathetic fallacy?a literary device in which
inanimate objects such as nature assume human reactions?amplifies the
tension of the characters? struggles by elevating human forces to the
level of natural forces."

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