Good evening,

Assumed and usual Disclaimer ..
(To avoid the confusion with other $2 grafitti questions I raise my
ante to $5 for my own grafitti and your engaging discussion in yet
another question which may prove to be rhetorical, yet of interest to
some. Any paid researcher is welcome to claim the grandiose sum on
offer. First in, first served with ANY answer. No line calls).

Having enjoyed the televised DUEL of the Australian Open (as our
current GA cyber duel seems to be on hold) I was reminded of my
observation of people's gaits. (I also reminded myself to retract my
"spoilt brat" comment about Lleyton. He has matured into a gutsy and
good sportsman from his early spoilt days in dismissing his public
supporters. His genuine handshake at the end of the match said it all.
My non-allegiance and unpatriotic dollar was backing the chap from the
CCCP). However, I digress.

But what of the gaits? I can pick a regular tennis player from a mile away.
Does the pigeon-toed, slightly arched, head down, forward leaning
stance belong only to tennis players? Remove the racquet from their
hand and spare ball from their pocket. It makes no difference. Is it
from all that training? Is it from being in perpetual "serve mode"?
OR, is it a demeanour telling the world "I'm a tennis player"? If so,
who started this strange walk?

A contrasting gait to aid your research in answer may be had from
observing John (Marion) Wayne in his Cowboy and Indian movies of past.
His walk contrasts to the tennis players, because John's gait was his
own. That rolling walk, head straight, still upper body, focused
movement as if he dare dislodge that broom handle apparently inserted below.

OR, are the better tennis players in fact pigeon-toed?

Your reference to other nuances in regard to gaits is encouraged.
Direct reference to body language is irrelevant to the question: Is it
deliberate or natural?

Kind regards in fun to all,

Phil

Phil ?

Thanks again for the invitation to post an answer to your question. 
After reposting my initial source, I will give you some more
information that confirms the notion that inward-pointing  toes will
improve your tennis.

Here once again is the first source I gave you:

"Further, there is no evidence that persistent intoeing leads to any
significant problems in adulthood. In fact, there is some evidence to
suggest that persistent intoeing can be of some benefit in sports that
require quick directional shifts, such as basketball, soccer, and
tennis."

University of Chicago: Pediatrics: Intoeing, knock-knees, and bowlegs
http://pediatrics.uchicago.edu/chiefs/documents/intoeing-Jon.pdf


Now, for that always useful second opinion, here?s another medical
source for that information, which also makes the interesting point
that outward-pointing toes will make one a better breast-stroker.  The
lesson of this, of course, is that ambitious parents should get a
orthopedic exam for their toddler before hiring the private coach to
train her to qualify for an athletic scholarship to the college of her
choice:

?Biomechanical advantage in certain sports may result from Pigeon toes
(sprinters, tennis, squash; sway-back (increased lumbar lordosis with
anterior pelvic tilt) - sprinters, jumpers, gymnasts; duck (everted)
feet- breastroke; inverted feet- backstroke, butterfly; double
jointedness (ligamentous laxity)- gymnasts.?

Oxford Handbook of Sports Medicine: Biochemical Advantage
http://www.worldortho.com/oxsportsmed/chapt13.html


Now, let?s see which way the feet of some of the top tennis stars point:

?McEnroe returned the favor by imitating Agassi's pigeon-toed returning stance.?
ATP: Tennis News
http://www.atptennis.com/en/newsandscores/news/2004/foundation.asp   

(Agassi is the poster boy for the pigeon-toed.  There are dozens of
online references to his unusual feet.)


?But [Jennifer]  Capriati barely looks up as she sidesteps pigeon-toed
across the baseline to prepare for the next shot.?

Tennis Magazine: Capriati: She?s Got Game
http://www.tennis.com/Progame/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=16275&itype=1296&iCategoryID=290


?On any surface, [Steffi] Graf preferred to play from the baseline.
She could control a match with one shot, dictating rallies with her
whippet forehand. Hopping at the baseline, slightly pigeon-toed, she
would lift off the ground, lean into the shot and slam the ball past
her opponent. ?

Slam Tennis: Steffi Graf Retires
http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamTennisGrafRetires/aug13_ult.html

(Graf is married to Agassi, so their chances of a pigeon-toed
offspring appear to be greater than average.  I would be happy to
research whether in-toeing is a recessive or dominant trait, but I
suppose that it?s possible that you really don?t care that much.)


?And there was [Bjorn] Borg stepping onto the clay, pigeon-toed as
ever, dangling from his right hand a black wood anachronism.?
Legg Mason Conference

http://www.leggmason.com/billmiller/conference/illustrations/gurley.asp 



Search Strategy:

After initial rounds of hit-and-miss searching, I found most of the
above information with the following straightforward Google search:

"pigeon toes" OR pigeon-toed tennis
://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-01,GGLD:en&q=%22Pigeon+toes%22+OR+pigeon%2Dtoed+tennis+



I am hopeful that this has been enough information to prove the point
that pigeon toes and tennis go together, especially since my diligent
research has come up with not a single reference to pro tennis players
with duck feet.  However, if anything is unclear, please ask for
clarification.


markj-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by silver777-ga on 08 Feb 2005 02:02 PST

Thanks Mark,

I did not expect such in depth research for something that was just an
intriguing observation to me. You have reinforced what I had heard
some years ago about the pigeon toed trait and tennis ability. You
give a new definition to the word "comprehensive". Thanks so much for
the unexpected and your time and energy in effort to delve further
into the question. And all that for 5 bucks. I will of course match
the number of dollars with equal stars in rating.

Please nominate your preferred areas of interest for future questions.

All the best, Phil

---

Clarification of Answer by markj-ga on 08 Feb 2005 03:48 PST

Phil --

Thanks for the kind words, the stars and the tip.

You asked about my areas of special interest.  

My main lifelong recreational interest has been music (playing,
listening to and reading about music) and I compete -- usually
unsuccessfully because my "trigger finger" is too slow -- for all
questions about classical music and pre-1950 pop music.  In fact, any
question in the "music" category usually piques my interest.

My other interests are eclectic and include sports, politics, history.
 Since I actually enjoy the process of researching and think that my
research skills and instincts are pretty good, I am attracted to
almost any question on almost any subject that seems to have a single
verifiable answer.

Although I am a (retired) attorney, I am usually reluctant to take on
questions that require applying the law to particular fact situations,
because I am experienced enough to know that a single question and
answer is generally insufficient to generate useful, not to mention
accurate, advice.  However, I often can come up with useful
information legal questions that meet my general test of having a
single verifiable answer.

Oh, and I don't give advice on "relationships."  I have enough
problems keeping my own in working order.


markj-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by silver777-ga on 08 Feb 2005 19:28 PST

Mark,

That's a varied mix of interests. Would you care to add to the
following with your summary?  :

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=470899

Phil

---

Clarification of Answer by markj-ga on 09 Feb 2005 05:45 PST

Done

Talk about service! This guy goes the extra mile. My question was
answered beyond that expected. The plethora of references and guidance
through the research was enjoyable and informative to read.
Excellence.

Typically, Ballerinas also have a distinctive gait.

Years ago, a friend saw a famous Russian ballerina who was then in her
eighties and she still strutted her stuff.

Did you know that prior to a lock being introduced, you can always
revise the List Price?

Quick someone please lock this question before it is revised to the $2 norm.

Ok; Ok, Phil will revise the price of this one up to $20. and btw keep the change.

Wrt another question, the promoter is not going to show, I think we
should find another one or shelve the event until he turns up. The
cheer leaders have gone through ten sets of coloured mop heads each
and now they are getting hungry.

Does your unpatriotic, even handed dollar also apply to the Ashes or
is that, as they say,? something else??

I once saw an interview with the actor Rex Harris who was asked about
doing a scene and leading with different parts of the body. The
interviewer said, for instance nose; elbow; chest; big toe and Harris
recited a bit of a scene with that part of the body being the only
thing that had your attention. What an actor! It got me looking at
other actors styles. The only one I can recall now is Ray Crebs from
Dallas who was the only actor I can remember that used to lead with
his bum. He had a kind of Dick Tracey gait that looked as if he was
riding his horse and somebody had taken it away without him knowing
about it.

I heard a story Clint Eastwood told on a chat show once where his
macho style backfired on him. He was at a Hollywood celeb. Function
when Muhammad Ali tapped him on the shoulder and said ?Come with me?.
Eastwood followed him down about ten flights of stairs until they were
in the sub basement with all the service pipes and valves etc. When
Ali found an open area with a pool of light he spun Clint Eastwood
round, pulled his right fist back and said ?Now you son of a bitch,
stand there and give me that mean look you do just before you pull
your gun out?.

I will probably think of more stories just after I click the ?Post a
Comment? button.

Catch you later Phil, nice to hear you are still nobly supporting the
GA researchers

Norman

According to experts, pigeon toes do indeed help one to play good tennis:

"Further, there is no evidence that persistent intoeing leads to any
significant problems in adulthood. In fact, there is some evidence to
suggest that persistent intoeing can be of some benefit in sports that
require quick directional shifts, such as basketball, soccer, and
tennis."

University of Chicago: Pediatrics: Intoeing, knock-knees, and bowlegs
http://pediatrics.uchicago.edu/chiefs/documents/intoeing-Jon.pdf

I wonder if this fellow might be a good tennis player?

http://buy.overstock.com/images/products/muze/books/0671694448.jpg

Hi Mike, Norman and Mark,

Thanks for your responses. My apologies for my belated recognition of your efforts.

Mike .. The fact that your friend's sighting was of an 80 year old
tells me that her ability and choice of stance can be acquired through
deliberate training. I wonder if her activeness contributes to her
longevity. Sounds like one amazing woman. If only all of our elderly
had her attitude. If she's doing that at her age, you could hardly
picture a depressed person expressing themselves that way.

(No I did not know about reducing a price. It would be very
Un-Australian anyway to reduce one's ante after declaring the bet).

Mark .. ahaa .. just as I had detected. No, I do remember someone
telling me about pigeon-toed people having a natural advantage in some
sports. My feet are quite the opposite. More like the "10 to 2"
configuration as you look at the face of a clock, if you know what I
mean. I wasn't too bad at tennis, but I still don't get them dance
steps. I don't blame my feet or knees for that. It's more to do with
the rhythm getting to the brain, then telling the feet what to do. I
am utterly useless in that regard. So simple, yet so difficult for me
to master. I achieved success once. I went to dance class. A very very
very very large lady showed me a simple step. She did all of the work
in the routine. I made her look as light as a feather, and I'm 63kg
when I'm wringing wet. It was like magic, but this lady knew how to
dance. She was the one whom made me look in control of the dance. I
won't forget that experience, but I can't promise to replicate it.

Sir Normandy ..

My one-on-one apology Sir for my belated response. Not from my
ignorance, simply from viewing lots of topics and then having to tear
myself away to attend to the more mundane chores, such as work. I
enjoy your comments. I have read your jibings in jest in other
questions and enjoyed our banterings of humour. I liked your reference
to "upside down if viewed from Australia". Your one-liners often
outwit a plethora of words. Thanks for the suggestion of upping my
price to $20 "and keep the change".  :)

As for the Ashes, indeed Sir that is something else. It just isn't
cricket otherwise. May I quote (in paraphrase from memory) our
greatest wicket-keeper ever? You know me by now, I will anyway.

Quote "When (IF) Australia wins the Ashes, that will be fantastic. IF
England (just happen to win through our injuries, no-balls or
overthrows) then it will be good for cricket". End Quote

Ray Crebs! Yep, know what ya mean, but what a depressive cowboy, with
a pasty girlfriend, relegated to the back blocks of the ranch. But who
shot JR? I loved the early takes of that series. It became quite
"crappy" later on. Ya just gotta love JR. He was my idol in early days
of youth. The rainmaker, twisting deals to his benefit, double
crossing, knowing how people would react etc. Jock Ewing, Ellie
Mae(May), Bobby Ewing too nice a bloke to be a Ewing, the big titted
blonde niece whats-her-name and JR's alco wife. Ahh .. true Yankee
middle-class, yeah right. But hey, I've seen Victoria Principal's
tits.
What a girl.

Now, where were we? Ahh yes. Thanks for the Clint/Ali story. I might
use that one day when appropriate. I hope it's a true yarn.

Should go now. All the best to you lot.

Phil

Hi Phil,

It?s good to have a healthy bit of partisanship now and again so long
as you can see more than eleven players on the field. I used to follow
the cricket some years ago but since I have been living in Belgium
it?s hard to keep up. People here don?t understand it and you have to
make a real effort to find the information. The high spot for me used
to be watching Richie Beneaud giving an objective roundup of the day?s
play on the rare occasions when England had knocked Australia out of
the ground.

I believe the Clint Eastwood story is true, he said it on a live TV
chat show, but I can?t remember which one now.

Wow! Someone who has actually seen Victoria?s Principals! I?ve been
waiting maybe 20 years to use that line. I saw her being interviewed
by Wogan in a live hook up between London and Australia. The
conversation went like this:

TW:  Hello Victoria, It?s 7.30 in the evening here. What time is it there?
VP: I?ve just had breakfast.
TW: Oh, what did you have?
VP: I had a Danish.
TW (to camera): That?s a cake folks, (to VP), just for the benefit of
our viewers that didn?t know.
VP: Just looked at Wogan like he had suddenly grown an extra head.

Ahh. Magic moments. 

Isn?t it strange how Dallas appealed to peoples baser instincts?  JR
was a total rat but everybody was secretly rooting for him. I can?t
remember the blond niece?s name either. She was played by Charlene
Tilton and her character?s name also began with a ?C?, but everybody
forgot it after she became affectionately known as ?The Poisoned
Dwarf?. It started loosing its way a little bit after Jock died and
then the substitute Miss Ellie made an appearance (Ellie May was from
the Beverly Hillbillies). The kiss of death came after they brought
Bobby back from the dead. I didn?t think he contributed that much when
he was alive, apart from having an excuse to see Pamila and he did
even less after he was resurrected. When Dallas was good it really was
the best! Somebody, a while ago asked a question about strong male and
female characters. Nearly everybody would have liked to have been JR,
but that woman who was in charge of the vineyard in a different
series, just came over as a nasty piece of rubbish.

That?s enough rambling for now, catch you later. 

 Norman

Btw. It's been in my mind for ages, I know it's a very long shot but I
din't suppose there is any chance you could be the original Sargent
Bilko, is there?

Pink and Mark,

Pink, your Pigeon Toad might be well suited to the flighty and often
angry responses to line calls.

Mark, thanks for the reference. Please claim the tidy sum of $5.

Phil

Hi Norman,

No I'm not Phil Silvers. Probo asked about that once. I'm still alive,
he has expired. Bilko that is, not Probo.

Ahh yes, Richie Benaud. Ya just gotta love those pale grey suits of
his. Once, during a slow three day test, his commentary turned to the
thoughts of the seagulls on the oval. Talk about a slow game!

I thought that Dallas was the sequel to The Beverly Hillbillies.
Weren't J and R the initials for Jeth-Ro? You know, "found the Texas
Tea, then moved to Beverly". Then back to Texas, Jed was replaced by
Jock and Charlene took over from Elly-May. Now I see the confusion of
names. "Miss Ellie" was the name given to Barbara Bel Geddes (sp).
Cliff Barnes of course took over from the bumbling banker of Beverly.

Phil

phil --

Thanks for the invitation to post an answer to your question.  I will
do so tomorrow, when I have had a chance to include some additional
information.

markj-ga