Hi GA Community...

I can't seem to figure this out or find any information about it on the internet.

I have a male friend who is highly educated and very successfully
self-employed in a professional field. He has numerous young female
friends who work as exotic dancers. Some of these girls are younger
than his daughter. Most of them are either on drugs or alcohol
nightly. The clubs where he visits them are pretty "seedy" to say the
least. Most of these girls have very little education and appear to be
living the harsher side of life.

Keep in mind, and I know this to be true, he does NOT go there for
sexual stimulation or anything like that. He goes strictly to befriend
them and let them have someone they can talk to about their problems,
life and dreams. At times, he has helped them with monetary funds to
prevent eviction, utility turnoffs and groceries.

The girls phone him just to talk and invite him for dinner at times.
He has also "hung" around with them in a non-work environment (
clubbing, going out for dinner etc )

My question is ( and I hope I don't sound like a "snob" ), why would
this educated, successful man choose to befriend these young girls on
a strictly platonic level?

I may add, that his involvement with these girls is causing somewhat
of a strain on his relationship with his current girlfriend (my close
friend), who is more his age and a professional herself.

Any light anyone could shed on this situation would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steph53

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 08 Feb 2005 16:29 PST

Steph, can you tell whether this guy's attitude is that these girls
need to be rescued from the lives they're living, or does he think
it's okay for them to be in a sexually-oriented business?

I once knew a man who devoted a large amount of his time and quite a
bit of his money to the effort of trying to "save" strippers. Not in a
religious sense, but just to give them a leg up, so to speak. He was
sincere about this. He didn't manipulate the girls. They, however,
manipulated him shamelessly.

Is your guy a "rescuer" type? Does he bring home stray humans?

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Clarification of Question by steph53-ga on 08 Feb 2005 18:08 PST

Hi Pink...

He does not "preach" to them about changing their lifestyles. However,
he does encourage them when one of them decides change her life for
the better.

And like your friend, he too has spent quite a lot on "rescuing" and
bringing home the strays.

To Just4fun2:

I hate to destroy your "bubble", but these girls are definately not
sex objects nor are they anywhere close to what a man would dream of
having on his arm. As I stated, they work in the "seedier" bars, and
most of them look many years older than they really are and do not
have anywhere close to the perfect bodies that men would envision an
exotic  dancer to have....

To Lrulrick...

Thank you for the ramble...

When I meant "seedier"..I really meant just that. The dancers in his
favourite place are not attending college, seeking to better
themselves  nor do they have any focus on the future. They just "are"
where they are for the moment.

I, myself, hope I did not offend you. I have the greatest respect for
anyone that chooses to work in whatever field they choose to and are
successful in.
Many, many years ago, I was a struggling single mother, and I'm not
ashamed to admit to this day, I worked as a "go-go dancer" to put food
on my children's table. So you see, I am not a "snob" but just a
concerned friend of a friend...

Thank you for your take on why some men befriend the girls. I believe
you may have hit the nail on the head when you said the " I did
something good today" feeling. I really tend to think that is why he
frequents these clubs and walks away with the very same thought.

Rest assured that I take no offence and the insights you have given me
are very much appreciated.

To Norman...

No, he is not religious, just a very giving honest person. Thanks for
your input though.

Steph53

Ego.  Let's say that it is true that he is not having sex with them. 
These women are considered sex objects and sex objects only.  Along
comes a "father" figure and they pour out their love to this man, the
love they feel for the nonexistance Father in their lives.

What does he get out of this relationship?  Many things - one being a
woman that many man would dream about having   --  on his arm.

I had to pause for a moment and then reassure myself that you did
indeed say "seedy" and that the girls seemed to be living on the
harsher side of life. Although I completely hope that you are not
"snobby" I would like to give my personal thoughts on dancers- as I
have known them.  I worked at a mens club. Over 75 percent of the
girls, no matter how sad their stories where to the "clients" of the
club, where either in collage or had completed school already. Even
those with the saddest story lived better than most other people I
knew. Many of the girls have went on to have great careers and alot
have great family lives. Dancing put them through school, paid their
bills and gave them extra cash. There's not one of them I worked with
that I wouldn't let take my SATs for me.

That was my defense of dancers everywhere.

***Now to your question, also my answer is taken from experience. The
men that would come in to have "friendships" often were like the women
that have that "lost puppy" deal going on in their heads. They often
believed that by befriending the girls at the club they could help
make the girls lives better. The had a overwhelming need to be that
"shinning prince" who rides in and saves the day. They were often
drawn to the women because they felt the girls looked up to them and
they could then have this "I did something good today" feel. One man I
fondly remember would gravitate to the girl with the worst story and
then insist helping her out of any trouble she could be in. He often
dines with them, paid bills, and took them shopping. As he was very
very late in his life I had to ask him one day why. He reasoning was
that doing this somehow made him feel less guitly for having the need
to see them to begin with. There were also the ones that could only
see the good in the girls. I met one man that was on vacation. When he
returned home he continued to talk with me, flew me to my "home" to
see my folks and he always had the resoning that he did it so I
wouldn't have to work so hard, there was never a hint of expectation
that our friendship would be anything more. Many men see it as a easy
way to bond with the female sex. When they first go in- they go
knowing that for a fee they will have someones attention. That any
flaws in them will be over looked. They can relax and be themselves.
Most women are drawn to man that can "be themselves" and therefor are
willing to provide the attention. If a man continues to visit the
clubs they are bound to form friendships. The issue becomes then that
they do not see that most of the women would continue that friendship
without the financial bonus.

There truely are many many reasons why a man you describe as educated
and successful would choose to befriend these dancers. It is not
unheard of and if the relationships are truely platonic, I personally
see no issue as to why this woud be a problem. But since you are the
"concerned friend" I would assume that you too have taken issue with
this, and I can not help but wonder why. If these women were
successful professionals with what society considers acceptible jobs
would you still have issue with the friendships he has? Is your
biggest complaint that the women do not fit into the correct social
profile that you require or is it that he seeks other female friends
in general? Maybe the man you speak of feels more at ease with these
women because they don't require him to be on some politically correct
social scale. He may just perfer their company because they willingly
accept him. And he feels as a friend that he had the availble funds to
help out others and therefore should. Maybe that is what he has
decided to contribute to society, to make someone elses day a little
easier- if indeed these dancers you speak of are on the harder side of
life.

************I do not mean to offend you in any manner- these would
just be my thoughts on the matter. So if I have I am sorry. I just see
the world at a different light than others may. Does any of my
rambling help?

I am really the wrong person to comment on this. You really need a
psychologist skilled in behavioural science to give you a better
quality answer.

Is this man in any way religious? Maybe he believes that the way to
ensure a place in heaven is by making a difference on earth. Could his
actions be driven by a need for catharsis? Is he seeking atonement for
past actions or is he a ?good Samaritan?, a genuine ?do-gooder?, a
genuine Christian? This is a step well beyond helping out down at the
youth club and it seems to me that there is a certain type of psyche
that seeks out the worst possible cases. Lord Longford was the extreme
example here, campaigning endlessly for the release from prison of
Myra Hindly, quite oblivious of the deep seated public rage at the
crimes she and her boyfriend Ian Brady had committed. I am however
unable to answer the question of what drives or motivates such a
psyche.

 This man does need to take care though. A possible problem is that
the people who are running these girls need to keep them in a
dependant situation and if he oversteps the help mark, he could place
himself in difficult position.

I really hope that you can find someone who can resolve this question
for you Steph.

Best regards

Norman.

Steph53-

It would take alot to offend me personally, so have no concern over
that. If indeed he is looking for that "i did something good today"
feeling- perhaps you may find a friendly way to suggest he find a non
profit he could volunteer for. Better yet your friend may try to find
a activity that would give him the same feeling of good that she could
do with him, thus strengthening their relationship while helping him
to find a better outlet for his need of helping others. But do try to
remember that these women may have had a different path planned out
for their lives- and perhaps they have fallen on hard times that they
were unable to get past.  As you related your story, you know how
these things can happen. above all I hope that you are able to
encourge this man for his efforts in making the world a bit better for
them, even if you persuade him to find a better way in which to help
others. He should be commended for trying to bring others even a
moment of ease.

It may have occurred to you once or twice Steph, that you lead a
convoluted existence :-)

Paternalism by proxy. It?s nice to have a father, and it?s nice to be
one. If one takes it at face value, cool. Sometimes there just ain?t
ulterior motives.

Best

Guzzi...

Just what do you mean by this??

"It may have occurred to you once or twice Steph, that you lead a
convoluted existence :-)"

The question I posted is NOT about me or my own life...

I'm not sure what you mean by posting this comment...

An "elightenment" would be muchly appreciated :)

Steph53

I think Guzzi meant 'you are missing the simplest explanation'

Personally, it sounds to me as if he is doing no harm, perhaps a bit of good.

Being fairly cynical, I would tend to suspect an ulterior motive, but
you seem pretty convinced that there is not one.
 
It might just be 'paternalism by proxy'.

The book Bare by Elisabeth Eaves chronicles her life as a
stripper,fron what shes says this type of attitude and behavior is not
uncommon.

To Steph53  You wrote:

To Just4fun2:

I hate to destroy your "bubble", but these girls are definately not
sex objects nor are they anywhere close to what a man would dream of
having on his arm. As I stated, they work in the "seedier" bars, and
most of them look many years older than they really are and do not
have anywhere close to the perfect bodies that men would envision an
exotic  dancer to have....

My "bubble"????  Hmmmm??? Cut me I bleed...

You wrote: These Girls are definately not sex objects.  So girls who
are "dancers" in "seedier" bars who get paid for exotic dancing can't
be sex objects?

You wrote: Most of them look many years older that they really are. 
Can't women who are older be sex objects to someone?

You wrote: Not perfect bodies:  Believe this or not, men like all
types of women, some skinny, some fat, some old and some young.

So lets look at the facts, you have an older man who goes to seedy
bars and takes out the dancers.

I wrote that I believe it has to do with HIS Ego. Secondly, I don't
believe he is NOT trying to have sex with them, I think he is, but you
don't - so I will give that to you.  The next item I wrote was that
these women are considered sex object. After all they get paid to
bring in customers who are interested in that type of dancing. Sexual
Dancing.  The customers only look at them as Sexual objects.  Nothing
more and nothing less.  Then I wrote, along comes a "father" figure
that they can pour out their love to.  I believe it can be easily
proved that many women in the Sex trade have nonexistance father's in
their lives.  Maybe, this "friend" of your's shows up and works
himself into their lives filling this void.  What does he get, I
wrote, a woman that "many" (not all, but some) men would dream about
having. That type of a woman is (hold on Steph, here comes a bad word)
a whore. A woman a man can have sex with anytime he wants.

I'll tell you a little story that may give you some insight into men
who like the "seedier" type of woman.

A friend of mine, a womenizer, cheated on every woman he ever knew,
and every woman he ever meet loved him.  He was a high profile
government worker and everyone in town knew him.  And he carried a
badge, made over a 6 figure income.  My wife and I have seen him with
many, many girlfriends - some well bred and some not.  Then one day he
finds himself a "new" girlfriend.  A seedy, well worn, drug usin',
booze drinkin' hard livin -- girlfriend, a whore.  Now this is the
interesting part, I NEVER saw him prouder! He took this girl
everywhere. I don't understant it - but this type of woman really
turned him on.  And he figured that it turned everyone else on too. It
didn't, but he thought it did!  Please reread the last two sentences. 
He figured and He thought.....  It may NOT be true but he thought it
was.

My wife does not "get it" either. This friend of mine could have any
woman he wants and he picks a "seedy" one???

Now this man friend of yours:  does he fit the above, I do not know
and you, more than likely, don't either.  But it's safe to bet that he
enjoys being seen with them.  With seedy, exotic dancers, (whores?)

If I have upset you with this, as it seems I did with my last comment,
I'm very sorry.  My wife used to get really mad about our friend too. 
But, more than likely, I do NOT know what I'm talking about so any
points I make should be taken with that in mind.

Hi Steph, ?twas a wry compliment -- meaning interesting and varied,
not humdrum. Your comments (always worth reading) bear testimony to
your having ?lived? :-)

Best

Thanks for all the comments everyone!!!

Some very insightful thoughts here.

Just4fun2:
Thanks for your second post and the story about your womanizer friend.
Wow, hard to believe that this guy "prefers" this type of a
woman...but then I'm not surprised...
Since posting my question, I've learned that this man dated one of the
dancers for over a year a long time ago. Wherever they went, she
caused a ruckus with her "potty mouth" and wild drinking.
He was actually banned from some clubs if he was bringing her!!! Hard
to believe but true. Of interest here, he claims they only "slept"
together once in whole time that they were dating ???

Guzzi...
Thanks ...yeah I've lead a pretty interesting ( to say the least )life...heheh;)

Steph53

Hi, Steph

A British Prime Minister - William Ewart Gladstone (1809 - 1898) -
also got his kicks from 'rescuing' fallen ladies.

So maybe your friend's friend is training to become a politician?  

Remember you heard it here first!

Bryan

And of course there was Profumo

Then Jellicoe ...

Fact is, tarts can be quite interesting

And David Mellor, there seems to be no end to them.

And Lord Jeffrey Archer also liked a frolic (allegedly).

And then it even happened the other way round when the owner of a
house of 'relaxation' for stressed government ministers and senior
members of the establishment ran for parliament. Who remembers Cynthia
Payne and her
'Payne and Pleasure' campaign?

And of course it goes the other way too

A few years ago a couple of guys I used to work with, visited an
ex-USSR Republic to meet with a government department.

They rustled up a couple of local English teachers to play 'hostess'.
Very 'official' hospitality.