Is the olde Confederacy the suzerain of America?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Seal

The CSA consisted of 11 states,
Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, 
North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia. 

From what I briefly read, and apologizing in advance for my ignorance,
Missouri, Kentucky and Maryland were "Union-occupied pro-secessionist"
states. California joined the Union in 1850 and was never a CSA state. 

Many, but not all of the party leaders in the House and the Senate are
from the states of the olde Confederacy, the CSA.

Senate:
Majority Leader, Bill Frist, Tennessee
         Whip, Mitch McConnell, Kentucky   

Minority Leader, Harry Reid, Nevada (not a state until 1864)
         Whip, Dick Durbin, Illinois

Pro Tempore, Ted Stevens, Alaska (not a state until 1959)

House: 
House Speaker Dennis Hastert, Illinois
Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Texas
Majority Whip Roy Blunt, Missouri
 

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, California  
Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, Maryland

Presidents:
Going back to 1964 all Presidents have been from the olde CSA, or from
California, but not from the "North", be it North-East (i.e New
England) or  North-West.

GWB was a governor from Texas.
Clinton was a governor from Arkansas
GHWB was a congressman and VP from Texas.
Reagan was a governor from (Berkely) California
Carter was a governor from Georgia
Nixon was a congressman, senator *and* VP from California
Johnson was a congressman, senator *and* VP from Texas.

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Request for Question Clarification by efn-ga on 12 Feb 2005 21:44 PST

Is this a rhetorical question?

Are you looking for a straightforward yes-or-no answer based on the
definition of the word "suzerain"?  If not, what kind of answer do you
seek?

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Clarification of Question by grthumongous-ga on 12 Feb 2005 22:14 PST

efn,

Encarta disctionary defines rhetorical question as one that does not
require an answer.  Sorry I don't have a Oxford's.

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861702501/rhetorical_question.html

I do request an answer. I am not being bombastic (or pedantic).
 
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/rhetorical.html

I am aware of at least one dictionary definition of "suzerain". 
Depending on the definition and especially connotation of "nation" an
expansive answer is
possible.

I seek more than, and will not accept,  a Yes/No.  

I hope you are willing to consider it.

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Clarification of Question by grthumongous-ga on 13 Feb 2005 23:12 PST

I'm still not convinced this is an incongruous construct.
Consider the case of England and Scotland.
Or the olde Russian SSR within the S.U.

Metaphorical? I don't know.
http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_/Metaphorical.html

Metaphysical? I don't that either. I'm just a po' boy learning about
our blue planet.


http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_561580426/metaphysical.html

Hello Grthumongous,
I would not believe the Confederacy a Suzerain Of America since the US
is basically the Union, and a suzerainty allows another country some
control its affairs. But since the Confederacy was against the Union
and did not allow it to control their affairs, it is not a suzerainty.
That is, unless evidence surfaces supporting a contrary view, or if
there was another country that the Confederacy would admit being a
suzerain to.

I must correct myself here, after looking at Wikipedia's definition of
Suzerainty. The Suzerain should be the more powerful country
controlling the affairs of the other one. But still I would not
consider the Confederacy a suzerain since it did not successfully
control the Union's affairs except through the war. Neither would the
Union be a suzerain, as the two sides operated independently of each
other. Their only interaction I guess would be the War.

Hi grthumongous,

Thanks for the clarification.  I gather that your question is
metaphorical and you are looking for a political essay rather than a
factual answer.  I am not qualified to provide that essay myself, but
perhaps someone else will.

Good luck,

--efn

Not to be picky, but... for the Confederacy to be America's suzerain,
it would have to exist. And it hasn't for over a century. It would be
hard to argue even that 'the former states of the Confederacy'
excersise suzerainty over the US: only two of the ten congressional
leaders you list are from such a state (Frist and DeLay), and only
four of the six presidents are (California doesn't count). That's not
quite control. Also, you'd have to show not just that the US tends to
elect Southern leaders (which is true, to a degree), but that there
some political entity that controls them all -- a kind of 'vast
Southern conspiracy,' if you will. Seems a bit far-fetched to me.

The Confederate States of America came into existence as a result of
the issue of state's rights.  It wasn't a matter of ethnicity or
nationality, it was a purely political issue.  With the end of the
Civil War and the defeat of the Confederacy the Union was, for all
intents and purposes, restored and the rights of the seccesionist
states reinstated.

Although the states themselves still exist, the Confederacy as a
viable political entity does not.  The political climate has changed
to such an extent that the question of suzerainty is pointless.  The
same qustion could be asked regarding the English Civil War and it is
equally as pointless.