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Q: 285 year old dinner plate found on 200 year old shipwreck near egypt 85years ago ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: 285 year old dinner plate found on 200 year old shipwreck near egypt 85years ago
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: tiger2005-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 21 Feb 2005 07:51 PST
Expires: 23 Mar 2005 07:51 PST
Question ID: 478086
I have a dinner plate that is over 285 years old found on a sunken
ship which had been discovered after 200 years near egypt,it has been
in the family for 85 years. Marked on the back of the plate is
P.BEGOOT & CO, MAANSTRAICH,
TELCA. I would like to know the value of it and the name of the ship it was on.
Answer  
Subject: Re: 285 year old dinner plate found on 200 year old shipwreck near egypt 85years ago
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 21 Feb 2005 10:12 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear tiger2005-ga;

Thank you for allowing me to answer your interesting question.

I am certain the dish you are telling us about was clearly made by
Maastricht Pottery Company in Maastricht, Holland. The company was
founded in 1834 as a glass and crystal works company by a man named
Petrus Regout.  Regout commonly stamped his name to his work as well
as the theme or name of the style/design each dish bears. So...

-- ?P. Regout? is the manufacturer 

-- ?Maastricht? is the place of manufacture

-- And ?Telca? is most likely the theme or style of this particular
dish (though I do tend to think it may actually have originally said
something other than ?telca?).

Regout was so popular that it was found all over Europe and can still
be found there today. Not only did the company make dinnerware but it
also made toy dishes as you can see in this vintage 35 piece set:

ANTIQUE TOYS
http://www.antiquetoys.be/picture/MAASTRICHT%20Regout%20porselin%20dinner%20set.JPG

If your piece of porcelain dinnerware bears a mark that looks similar
to a double oval with ?P. Regout? at the top ?Maastricht? at the
bottom (and possibly a number in the center) then your plate can be
dated to pre-1870 but definitely no earlier than 1834. In 1870 the
company began using a multi-colored mark and in 1878, when Regout died
and his son?s took over, the company adopted a Sphinx trademark and
backstamp. Here are some post-1870 backstamps. Note the style names
that are also included on many of the stamps.

http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/zappengine/objects/Sphinx.jpg
http://www.kanne-kruike.nl/Afbeeldingen/Regout154Background.jpg
http://www.amherst-antiques-folkart.com/images/Antiquespic/maastrichbowlcomp.jpg


So you see, now we have a problem. If your piece bears a mark of a
Sphinx then your plate was made sometime after 1878. If it doesn't
then it can only be as old as 1834. Either way, neither one of these
periods are 285 years old, and since Regout?s oldest pieces are known
to be only 171 years old today, one could not logically be dated to
285 years ago and have been discovered aboard a 200 year old
shipwreck.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but while your plate is
certainly old, and perhaps even valuable (though probably not
exceptionally so), the story about a shipwreck some two centuries ago
involving this dish is simply not plausible due to the obvious
conflict in dates. Either the dish was not found in a shipwreck at all
or the shipwreck occurred some time after 1834 at the earliest or
after 1870-78 at the latest, depending on the backstamp on your dish).
Having said that, Regout porcelain was so common to Europe that it
would be impossible to know which ships might have carried a few (or
many) pieces of this porcelain. In fact, it was so common that I would
not be surprised to learn that every European ship that wrecked from
the 1850?s to the 1900?s had some form or another of Regout onboard.

Though this example bears no date that I can see, here is an entire
set of Regout (Pinksterbloem theme) dinnerware listed on Netherlands
eBay for less than 500 Euro. You can see how common the dishes are
even today.

EBAY
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2203&item=7301858405&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Some Maastricht/Regout porcelain is known to commonly carry date codes
consisting of discreet dots. Some mould numbers can even precisely
date a piece by checking the marks against a date book or a standard
reference of works.

There are some leading authorities on Regout porcelain and I recommend
you contact one of them to get an idea of what your piece may be
worth:

The Bonnefanten Museum is the foremost museum for old master's and
contemporary fine art in the province of Limburg. They have some
Regout pieces in their collection:

Bonnefantenmuseum, Avenue Céramique 250, 
Postbus 1735, 6201 BS Maastricht
Tel. +31 43 329 01 90, fax +31 43 329 01 99, 
Email:  Mirjam Stam pressoffice@bonnefanten.nl
http://www.bonnefanten.nl/engels/index.html

Freemart Fine Art Consultancy
(Affiliated to some extent with ?Antiques Roadshow?)
http://www.freemanart.ca/appraisals.htm
http://www.freemanart.ca/contactus.htm

Without the aid of a professional appraiser, it would be impossible to
pinpoint a certain shipwreck simply by looking at a single dish
"reportedly" found there unless there was something so unusual and
unique about that peice that it's origin is unmistakeable. As I
mentioned before, I am convinced that what you have is an example of
Maastricht/Regout porcelain, however, I doubt anyone could match one
dish with one shipwreck using any single example of Maastricht/Regout
porcelain because the dishes were so common.

I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher



OTHER INFORMATION SOURCES

PORCELAIN POTTERY CHINA MARKS
http://www.mygrannysatticantiques.com/html/porcelain_pottery_china_marks_2.htm

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ANTIQUES
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles02/pottery-m.shtml




SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINE USED:

Google ://www.google.com


SEARCH TERMS USED:

?P. Regout?

?Petrus Regout?

Maastricht

Porcelain
tiger2005-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you for the information it is very helpful...

Comments  
Subject: Re: 285 year old dinner plate found on 200 year old shipwreck near egypt 85years ago
From: my11frogs-ga on 06 Mar 2005 18:30 PST
 
I bought a Regot serving plate a few years ago at a market in Belgium.
 I was interested to learn the past of it, and ended up contacting the
Bonnefantenmuseum in Maastricht since I lived close.  They were able
to give me a span of years (1884-1886)for which my plate was made.  I
just described the back markings and the name of the pattern, which is
what the ?Telca? on your plate probably is.  It's a great place to go
for more information.

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