I am working on a project to collect the autograph of every boxer
Muhammad Ali ever fought professionally- of the 50 boxers Ali faced
one of the few signatures I am missing is that of Alejandro Lavorante-
Lavorante fought Ali on 7/20/62 and in his next figrt in LA on 9/21/62
was critically injured and died in Argentina on 4/01/64.I am looking
to locate the signature of Mr. lavorante preferably on a fight
contract, insurance policy, application or any such document.Will pay
a generous fee for this signature- Can you help me locate this missing
autograph? |
Request for Question Clarification by
guillermo-ga
on
01 Aug 2002 11:51 PDT
Hi, Stephen, thank you for reposting the question. It's a pity that
all the precedent communication was left on the previous one, so I'll
post the corresponding URL here, to facilitate getting there if
needed.
https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=35765
We'll keep in touch.
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Clarification of Question by
flash-ga
on
01 Aug 2002 15:02 PDT
Hello Guillermo- Glad to hear from you- hope all is well-wishing you
continued good luck in the search for Alejandro Lavorante's signature-
stay in touch- Warmest regards-Stephen
|
Request for Question Clarification by
silviares-ga
on
12 Aug 2002 15:56 PDT
Hello flash-ga
I was wondering if you have already tried contacting the California
State Athletic Commission. During my research I got this information
from one of the sellers of Boxing Memorabilia
"
.....
Hopefully by now you have obtained the signature you are looking for.
If not, may this information will help.
The fight was held in Los Angeles, CA, so by contacting the California
State Athletic Commission you should be able to get all the
information you need, i.e.. promoter, matchmaker, managers plus the
commission itself should have the fight contracts on file.
If that fails you can look up Lavorante's record and contact the
commissions of places where his other fights took place, hopefully one
of the commissions will still have a signed contract on file. May not
be the one against Ali but will be a genuine signature.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Aurelio Martinez"
I tried contacting the commission by email but so far nobody reply but
if you haven't contacted them I can be more persistent and try calling
them on the phone
silviares
|
Request for Question Clarification by
silviares-ga
on
12 Aug 2002 16:13 PDT
Sorry ... in my previous message I forgot to mention that the
Commission can be reached at
Athletic Commission
1424 Howe Avenue,
Suite 33
Sacramento, CA
95825-3217
Phone: (916) 263-2195
Fax: (916) 263-2197
boxing@dca.ca.gov
silviares
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Clarification of Question by
flash-ga
on
13 Aug 2002 05:16 PDT
Dear Silviares- Thank you for your imput relative to my quest foe a
Alejandro Lavorante autograph- Your suggestions about contacting the
state athletic commissions could potentially help us- We have not
ventured down this road at all yet- Please feel free to persue this
lead and please advise if you strike gold! Wishing you yhe best of
luck- Warmest regards- Stephen/Flash
|
Dear Stephen,
Although I know Ive worked thoroughly and motivated for this quest,
the value you gave to my job is really most satisfying for my
self-esteem. Im so grateful. You may say dont thank me, you earned
it then Ill thank you twice.
That said, Ill give you a summary of what weve got to so far as
discussed in clarifications and comments- as an answer.
I tried the Luna Park box stadium and management organization-, the
Argentine Box Federation, the House of Boxers, several sport
journalists, three siblings, a nephew, and none of them could really
help. As suggested by my fellow researcher Silviares, I telephoned the
California State Athletic Commission, where I was told that they dont
keep records dated before 1990.
Finally, I thought of trying governmental records in Argentina, and
found out that Mr. Alejandro Lavorantes signature is most likely to
be in archives at the Policía Federal Argentina (Argentine Federal
Police), which is the only governmental agency that has ever issued
passports in this country, and Lavorante must have had a passport
because its a fact that he traveled abroad. Confirming that almost
certainty, when I talked to his sister she first thought she might
have kept Alejandros passport, what unfortunately later proved to be
wrong.
Besides that, according with what I was told by police officers at the
personal documentation office, regular procedures are to keep files as
old as those we are interested in, and even much older, including
signature image.
The obstacle is that personal files kept by the police are classified
and not even the relatives can request view of them. The only
possibility is to present a legal appeal at Courts, invoking reasons
such as historical interest or similar. Im waiting for information
about what could be the costs of that course of action, and how likely
it may be that a judge approved this kind of appeal.
If you consider following this approach and I understand you do- Id
be glad to let you know about reliable legal advise in Buenos Aires.
In case a more fluent way of communication between us was required -if
you are thinking I may play a role in that process- Ive sent an email
to the editors asking how it could be done, if possible. For the
moment, we can always communicate through clarifications or comments
on this same page. Clarification requests seem to be better for Ill
be sent an email every time you post one.
Thank you again for your challenging question and the estimation of my
work.
Best regards,
Guillermo |
Request for Answer Clarification by
flash-ga
on
30 Sep 2002 06:24 PDT
Dear Guillermo- Happy Monday morning- Hope all is well- Thank you so
much for the address and phone number of Alejandro's brother- I have a
very good friend locally who speaks Spanish fluently and who has been
assisting me in this project- As a matter of fact on my behalf he has
been speaking with Alfredo Evangelista in Spain and we hope to have
his signature very shortly- Unless you feel uncomfortable I hope to
have my associate telephone Mr. Lavorante early this week-Will of
course keep you posted-Thanks again for your spectacular efforts on my
behalf- Warmest regards- Stephen
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
30 Sep 2002 12:17 PDT
Dear Stephen,
Please feel free to manage your further actions regarding Lavorante's
signature the way you think will be the best. I suggested a letter
since I didn't know you had the Spanish speaking possibility, what
will undoubtedly make communication easier. Please keep me posted, I
don't want to miss the finale, and remember you can count on me if you
need so, including for the legal try if the family one fails.
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
flash-ga
on
04 Oct 2002 12:00 PDT
Rear Guillermo- Happy Friday afternoon- Hope all is well-Earlier this
week the local newspaper did a nice story on my project- The web site
for this paper is www.theunionleader.com- the article ran on Tuesday
10/01 so scroll down to previous editions to locate this story- I
think it will put a smile on your face- Also earlier today we called
the Lavorante family in Argentina- We spoke with Alejandro's nephew,
who was in fact named after his famous uncle- He was very cordial and
thought it unlikely that the family would be able to find a documented
autograph- Nonetheless he said he would speak with his
uncle,Alejandro's brother,and that we should call back again next
week, which we will obviously do. Will keep you posted- As always your
information was just spectacular- Thanks again for all your help-
Enjoy your weekend- Warmest regards- Stephen
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
05 Oct 2002 04:41 PDT
Hello, Stephen,
Great column! And I'm glad you finally made contact. Hope things will work out!
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
11 Oct 2002 08:43 PDT
Dear Stephen,
You did put a smile on my face with the article about your quest. Its
unusual to see customers look in this job, as unusual is this search,
and even more rare to see it published. This all turned out to be most
exiting.
Now let me put a smile on yours. I like box, though am not a big fan
right now, but I used to be when I was a kid and a teenager, mainly
because my old man is, and I enjoyed very much going with him to the
box stadium. (We had quite a bunch of great boxers here in Argentina.)
Im 42 now, and when I was 10, in 1970, my dad took me in an airplane
with a couple of his friends and we all went to New York. Another
friend of my father, an Argentine who was living in NYC, had already
bought the tickets for all of us to see Mohammed Ali vs. Oscar Ringo
Bonavena at the Madison Square Garden. When this friend met me for the
first time, he told my father: Man, you didnt tell me your son was
so young; they wont let him in being under 14.
Have you ever tried to make understand a 10 years old kid, who has the
illusion to see his idol trying to beat the greatest one, having flown
about 10,000 miles, that hes to stay at the hotel while all the
grownups enjoy the party? Or have you tried to convince a father whos
used to watch the box with his only male son that he wont be able to
enjoy his company in what would probably be the greatest box fight
ever seen by any of them?
The first step was the pathetic efforts of my father and friends to
make me look older -when I was a pretty short baby face 5th grade
child- by selecting clothes and hairstyle. It was fun, but it
obviously didnt work. The guy at the entrance asked for my ID. Then,
my dad, who didnt speak real English, but whos always been a very
persuasive businessman, told the guy the emotional story, that we had
done all the way from Argentina, that we were all Ringos and Alis
fans, and blah, blah. You know, the man at the entrance of the Madison
Square Garden, he loves box too! He couldnt help getting touched by
my old mans speech. My English was less than basic by that time, but
I did understand when he said: OK, fourteen years
and let me in,
moving his eyes discretely from one side to another, trying to make
sure he wasnt being controlled.
That was a great experience in my life that Ill never forget. I was
completely aware of who Mohammed Ali was, and although I didnt have
the satisfaction of seeing my fellow countryman win, I saw a great,
tough fight, a real titans duel, and is a historical memory for me,
and an unforgettable time with my dad.
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
flash-ga
on
11 Oct 2002 11:56 PDT
Dear Guillermo- Happy Friday afternoon- Hope all is well- Thank you so
much for sharing that beautiful story about your Dad taking you to
America to see the Ali Bonavena war at Madison Square Garden- You are
certainly blessed to have such wonderful memories from your childhood-
I am also very blessed with a fantastic extended family that is the
center of my universe- On another front I am not fairing so well
communicating with the Lavorante family- After speaking with
Alejandro's nephew last week we tried atleast 5 or 6 times this week
to speak with Alejandro's brother with no luck- Next week I will try
again and also write a very personal letter to Juan Antonio Lavorante
in the hopes of finding his brother's autograph- Will keep you posted-
Again thanks for all your help and for sharing such an intimate part
of your life with me-Enjoy your weekend- Warmest regards- Stephen
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
11 Oct 2002 12:36 PDT
Dear Stephen,
I was sure you'd like my story, and just now I realize that its been
your question that brought up to my mind those nicest memories.
About your approach with the Lavorantes, I think a very personal
letter is a great idea. Please let me know the news.
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
flash-ga
on
01 Nov 2002 09:16 PST
Dear Guillermo- No correspondence for weeks and now 2 emails in one
day- A friend who is doing a book on Ali's opponents had asked me to
find out, if I could, Lavorante's city of birth- When we requested
this information from Lydia she said she had already given this
information to someone in Buenos Aires- Would you happen to be the
recipient of this information and if so could you share it with us?
AGAIN LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU- WARMEST REGARDS- STEPHEN
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
03 Nov 2002 11:09 PST
Dear Stephen,
Sorry for not answering earlier. I happen to be out of town these
days. About Alejandro's place of birth, I think the city was Mendoza,
but to be honest I should confirm it, before taking it for sure.
Regarding the money negotiation, it's a very difficult issue to give
an opinion about. Just to give you an idea, the ammount you offer is
equivalent here to a monthly salary of, say, a qualified junior
programmer. Then, it's a matter of how significant that ammount is for
them, in relation to their brother's memory. When I talked to her, she
told me the same she told you about the ammount, and also that she
wanted "the person whom I represented" to make direct contact, and
that's how finally Juan Antonio gave me his garage's phone number. For
that reason, although I'd be pleased to help you to accomplish the
deal, at this point my intervention might be counterproductive. My
suggestion is to wait for her answer and then see how things go on.
However, I'm still at hand if I become the best option, for this or
whatever other task.
About verifying signature's authenticity, I want to help, but I'll
have to figure out how. Maybe some legal procedure would make it, I'll
find it out when back in Buenos Aires (after Wednesday).
Now please forgive me about a little but not minor thing I must tell
you. In your good will to facilitate my contact with Ms. Lavorante,
you didn't realize you were posting personal contact information on
this public site. For that reason, as a Google researcher, I have to
ask the editors to pull that text out. I'm sure you'll understand. My
apologies.
Well, you'll have news from me in a few days. Have a nice week!
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
14 Nov 2002 10:05 PST
Dear Stephen,
I owe you some information about if there's a legal way to verify the
authenticity of a signature claimed to be of Alejandro Lavorante if
eventually his siblings provide one. (BTW, have you heard from them
yet?). I couldn't make contact with my lawyer yet, in part because
I've been traveling for work, and also because he is facing a health
problem. I think that before next Wednesday I'll have news about it.
Also, please remember that if the family try leads to no result,
there's still the legal way.
I noticed that the editors removed your post. It seems that removing
only the telephone number was not possible. I'm sorry about that.
Anyway, I keep record of it.
Let's keep in touch.
Best regards,
Guillermo
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
14 Nov 2002 13:04 PST
I almost forgot. About Lavorante's place of birth, I think I was
wrong. It's more likely that he was born in the city of Rosario,
Argentina. I've sent an email to another source to confirm. Let's see
if I get any feed-back.
Regards,
Guillermo
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
flash-ga
on
14 Nov 2002 13:54 PST
Dear Guillermo- Happy Thursday afternoon- Nice to hear from you- Hope
all is well- Since we last exchanged emails we have made significant
progress with Alejandro's sister, Lydia- Lydia has located Alejandro's
passport, several signed pictures, diaries, and assorted other items-
Lydia is a very nice but determined woman- I offered $500.00 for the
paassport, she asked for $5000.00- After several days of serious
negotiations I reluctantly agreed to $2500.00 for the entire package
of memorabilia- For the last 10 days we have been trying to arrange
the logistics for a money for goods swap- After numerous ideas that
didn't work we are hoping to consumate the transaction at the branch
office of the local Salvation Army in Cordoba or Mendoza-Apparantly
our New Hampshire Salvation Army captain knows his counterpart in
Argentina quite well- It is very exciting to finally see light at the
end of the tunnel-Again appreciate all your help and imput- Will keep
you posted- Warmest regards- Stephen
|
Clarification of Answer by
guillermo-ga
on
18 Nov 2003 18:03 PST
Hello,
Although the last message posted as a request for clarification is not
really ment to be answered, and I can't see any newer one, I have a
message in my records asking me to clarify answer. This is the reason
for this message. Anyway, if you Stephen happen to read it, have my
warmest regards, I always remember the adventure that your question
led me to. Bye.
Guillermo
|