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Q: Spanish Question - meals ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Spanish Question - meals
Category: Reference, Education and News
Asked by: patrice29-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 27 Feb 2005 17:28 PST
Expires: 29 Mar 2005 17:28 PST
Question ID: 482030
I have a Spanish verbs book that gives definitions for 'having' meals as:

have breakfast - desayunarse
have lunch - almorzar
have dinner - cenar

I understand desayunarse, since 'having' a meal seems like a reflexive verb.
Could you explain why the other two are not given in the relexive form.
Of course in English we have the word 'dine' for 'having dinner'. It's
not much of a stretch to think, lets 'dinner' together, lets 'lunch'
together, lets 'breakfast' together.

But these all seem like reflexive activities. Any clarity would be a
really big help.

Patrice
Answer  
Subject: Re: Spanish Question - meals
Answered By: crabcakes-ga on 27 Feb 2005 23:16 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi Patrice,

   I thought so much about breakfast that I'm now craving bacon and eggs!


?Desyaunar?, as an intransitive verb, is ?to have breakfast, to breakfast?.

Examples: Desayunamos cada dia. = We eat breakfast every day.
          Ella no desayuna en los fines de semana. = She does not eat
breakfast on weekends.
          Desayuné rápido = I ate breakfast quickly. I breakfasted quickly. 
          Desayuné pan con mantequilla = I had bread and butter for
breakfast. (I breakfasted on bread and butter, and NOT I fed myself
bread and butter.).


Now, when a verb is reflexive the action remains with the subject.
?Desayunarse? is the reflexive form. So, if I want to say I ate two
eggs for breakfast (Basically, 'I fed myself breakfast of two eggs',
or ?two eggs were eaten by me for breakfast?), I?d say ?Yo me desayuné
dos huevos? = I ate two eggs for breakfast.

Desayauno, meaning ?I break my fast.?
Me desayuno, meaning ?I break my fast myself (by eating)?


I found some good explanatory examples on this site:
http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons/reflexive1.htm

?The purpose of the reflexive object pronouns is to show that the
action of the verb remains with the subject.
Juan se lava la cara.
Juan washes his face. (reflexive)

Juan lava su carro. (non-reflexive)
Juan washes his car. 

A verb is reflexive when the subject and the object are the same. 
I wash myself.
subject: I
verb: wash
object: myself

Since the subject and object are the same, the verb is reflexive.



I wash the car.
subject: I
verb: wash
object: car

Since the subject and object are different, the verb is not reflexive. 

Note that nearly all verbs can be made reflexive. All it means when a
verb is reflexive is that the action remains with the subject.
wash the dog (non-reflexive)
wash your face (reflexive)

raise the book (non-reflexive)
raise your arm (reflexive)

put the baby to bed (non-reflexive)
go to bed (reflexive)

wake up your son (non-reflexive)
wake up yourself (reflexive)

Note: When referring to body parts, use the definite article, thus "la
cara" not "su cara." ?


This page explains a bit further.
http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons/reflexive2.htm

As to why ?cenar? and ?almorzar? are not reflexive? the best I can
come up with is ?desayunarse? is classified as a reflexive verb,
probably due to it?s real meaning!  As in English, ?desayunar? means
to undo a fast, stop a fast, as ?break fast?. We are eating after a
night of fasting, breaking our fast. ?Ayunar? means ?to fast?.
The use  may be colloquial too. My Mexican friends use
?desayunar/desayunarse? for breakfast, but ?comer? for lunch, ?La
comida? is the noon meal, and ?almorzar? is the evening meal. This is
similar to regional US terms as ?dinner? and ?supper?.


Additional Information:
Author's opinion: To be honest, I can't think of any reason to
memorize a whole list of reflexive verbs. In most cases, if you know
the infinitive of the verb for an action, and you want to use it as a
reflexive verb, go ahead and do it.

Some examples of reflexive verbs are shown below: 
acostarse	to go to bed
bañarse	        to bathe
cepillarse	to brush your teeth
desayunarse	to have breakfast
despertarse	to wake up
irse	        to go away
levantarse	to get up
maquillarse	to put on makeup
mirarse	        to look yourself
peinarse	to comb yourself (your hair)
ponerse	        to put something on
quitarse	to take off
sentarse	to sit down
http://deutsch98.tripod.com/Four/verb23.htm

A simple practice exercise with ?desayunarse?
http://www.maxcr.com/cgi-bin/conj.pl?verb=*se,view=2,list=,index=13,tense=1,prac=1,label=Reflexive%20Verbs

Here are some exercises with other Spanish reflexive verbs.
http://www.colby.edu/~bknelson/exercises/reflexive.html

Hope this helps you out! 
Hasta luego, Crabcakes

Request for Answer Clarification by patrice29-ga on 28 Feb 2005 13:58 PST
Great answer crabcakes. Just one point I need to clarify. Is it correct that,

I eat lunch at noon.  <<is>>   Me almorzo a mediodía.

and,
I don't eat dinner on Mondays  <<is>>  No me ceno el lunes.

That 'lunch' and 'dinner' are also typically used as reflexive verbs?

Patrice

Clarification of Answer by crabcakes-ga on 28 Feb 2005 16:21 PST
Close, patrice, but 'almorzar' is not reflexive although it IS irregular.

The correct form would be 
Yo almuerzo al mediodia. (Almuerzo is also a noun for 'lunch')
Tu almuerzas
Ella/el almuerza
Ellos almorzan
Nosotros almorzamos

Commonly used would be "Como mi almuerzo al mediodia", "Como mi cena a
la seis" "No tomo la ceno los lunes"

Some regions would use "Tomo la cena a las seis", "Tomo el almuerzo al mediodia"


'Cenar' is not reflexive either. (Go figure!)

Yo no ceno los lunes. (As in all Mondays). If you were not going to
eat dinner this coming Monday, you would say "No voy a cenar el
lunes."


I did a poor job of explaining in my answer, but I feel 'desayunar'
was deemed reflexive due to the nature of the word. Since you are
breaking your own fast, perhaps that is how is became reflexive.

Keep it up!

Sinceramente, Crabcakes
patrice29-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00

Comments  
Subject: Re: Spanish Question - meals
From: crabcakes-ga on 27 Feb 2005 20:10 PST
 
Saludos Patrice,

This is a really hard one for me to explain, and I can find no
reasonable  explanation.

?Desyaunar?, as an intransitive verb, is ?to have breakfast, to breakfast?
and ?Desayunar? as a transitive verb is ?to have for breakfast?

Examples: Desayunamos cada dia. = We eat breakfast every day.
                  Ella no desayuna en los fines de semana. = She does
not eat breakfast on weekends.
                  Desayuné rápido = I ate breakfast quickly.

Now, when a verb is reflexive the action remains with the subject.
?Desayunarse? is the reflexive form. So, if I want to say I ate two
eggs for breakfast (I breakfasted on two eggs), I?d say ?Yo me
desayuné dos huevos? = I had two eggs for breakfast. Desayuné pan con
mantequilla = I ate bread and butter for breakfast. (I breakfasted on
bread and butter).

I?m leaving this as a comment only, as I can not thoroughly explain
this one! Perhaps one of our native speakers can!

Regards, Crabcakes
Subject: Re: Spanish Question - meals
From: crabcakes-ga on 02 Mar 2005 11:46 PST
 
Thank you Patrice, for the stars and the nice tip! Le agradezco!
Sinceramente, Crabcakes

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