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Q: Family Estate Question ($30.00) ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Family Estate Question ($30.00)
Category: Business and Money
Asked by: steph9876-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 17 Mar 2005 11:30 PST
Expires: 16 Apr 2005 12:30 PDT
Question ID: 496262
My grandfather passed away a while ago, and my mother is the executor
of the estate. We found out my aunt had been dipping into his funds
w/o his knowlegdge before he passed, and took out a loan in his name.
The lender obviously thought (and was mistaken) that my aunt was the
executor. Our family wanted to hire a lawyer to research the bank docs
and give us a total amount of $ that she took and apply that amount
against her proceeds from the estate. She is fine with this, and it
seems the best way for the family to handle it (its easier for her to
hear the damage she did from a third party). However, the lawyer is
telling us not to do that, because once we engage a lawyer, they would
be legally required to press charges against my aunt (which is NOT
what we want to do). Is this right? It sounds very weird to me. I just
can't believe that this is a big enough offense that even if the
family/estate does NOT want to press charges, that the DA would go
ahead anyways? Has anyone ever heard of this, or is the lawyer
mistaken?

Is there a minimum threshold of money that once my aunt crossed, the
DA can now press charges w/o the families consent?

FYI the area is Northern California.  Thx!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Family Estate Question ($30.00)
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 17 Mar 2005 12:28 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear steph9876-ga;

Thank you for allowing me to answer your interesting question.

It is true that the State of California ?could? THEORETICALLY choose
to pursue criminal charges against your aunt for defrauding your
grandfather or his estate even though the trustees or executor of the
state oppose such a move. The question is, would they? I doubt it.

The prosecutor (or District Attorney, as they are called in
California) could choose to call the family as ?hostile witnesses?, or
persons whose testimony could implicate someone against their will.

HOSTILE WITNESS
http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=884&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

In some cases, like domestic abuse or other criminal activity occurs
where people are physically harmed or endangered, the state can and
sometimes does prosecute the case whether the victim wants to or not.
This is especially true where children or (living) elderly people are
involved who cannot speak or make decisions for themselves. Money
matters don?t normally result in this type of prosecution especially
if only a nominal amount of money is involved.

The bigger problem here, I think, is that the creditor (who was
technically the one who was actually defrauded) might very well have a
valid criminal complaint. Should a larger investigation involving the
DA?s office be prompted by some type of investigation into the
incident, it is possible I suppose that the creditor could wind up
being the primary complainant in the matter ? and if you?ve ever seen
a corporate attorney get after someone in criminal or civil court you
know it is a very ugly affair indeed.

As a general rule, you need not engage a lawyer in ANY court
proceeding, neither is the engagement of a lawyer detrimental to you
in any court proceeding. As for what your lawyer told you, I tend to
believe that he was probably offering his opinion rather than the
rules of criminal procedure. The truth is that no entity and no
statute, in any of the 50 US states, has the authority to compel or
force ANYONE to file criminal or civil proceeding against ANYONE ELSE
with regard to ANY CRIMINAL OR CIVIL ACTION. The State can do this,
but I can?t imagine why it would prosecute the matter if all parties
have already agreed to a fair solution ? and it is now only a matter
of ?how much?.

We cannot offer you legal advice in this forum, but it would seem to
me that if the matter went to probate then there would be (or could
be) an itemized list of debts and credits in your grandfather?s
records. The executor could order an audit of those records and
privately determine to what extent your aunt was responsible. Perhaps
this could be done with an accountant or even a separate attorney, who
specializes in estate law, if necessary. Then the aunt could be asked
to enter into an agreement with the estate to make restitution in the
form of a binding contract in which she freely agrees to forfeit any
portion equal to what she inappropriately obtained.

I am not a lawyer, but I do work in law enforcement and have seen and
worked many fraud cases. If a person commits a crime against a
deceased person?s estate, and no other parties are harmed, the
administrator of the estate is usually the person who would decide if
the matter should be prosecuted in the estate?s interest. If not, then
for all intents and purposes no offense has been committed. Speaking
from a law enforcement perspective, if the administrator told me that
he or she did not wish to pursue the matter, I would not investigate
it one inch further. Your case is not the first one where a family
member was confronted with the embarrassment of catching a loved one
with his or her hand in the till after a grandparent died. I don?t
know if you?ve noticed or not, but the California Department of
Corrections isn?t overflowing with aunts who turned out to be estate
thieves. Unless an enormous amount of money is involved, most families
probably work this out among themselves or swallow the loss like a bad
dose of salts.

I see no reason why the family (i.e. the ?real? executor/administrator
of the estate) cannot handle this out of criminal court of all parties
involved are in full agreement. Furthermore, I tend to believe the
notion is absurd, that you will somehow be forced to convict your aunt
of a felony or send you?re her to the penitentiary against your will
if you quietly hire a lawyer to help sort out the financial inequities
so you can settle the matter among yourselves privately out of court
and keep your family?s dignity intact. My guess, just like seeing a
doctor, is that sometimes a second opinion is in order. I recommend
you get one before you take this guy at his word. I?m not saying he?s
trying to steer you wrong, but then again I?m not saying he?s a very
good driver either ? know what I mean?

I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher
steph9876-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you!!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Family Estate Question ($30.00)
From: expertlaw-ga on 20 Mar 2005 10:12 PST
 
Dear steph9876,

So far, you seem to be in the position of having to assess your
situation without even a single reference to California law, or to any
other California legal authority. Obviously, knowing the law would
help you out. You may be able to get at least some idea of the legal
issues if you contact the attorney you consulted and ask some direct
questions. Or, as suggested, by consulting with a second lawyer.

My first question to the lawyer you consulted would be whether the
lawyer would report the financial abuse because of a legal obligation,
or because of a perceived ethical duty? I am not aware of any
California law which, under the circumstances you describe, would make
a lawyer a mandated reporter (meaning that the lawyer would be legally
required to report the financial abuse). If there is such a law, the
lawyer should be able to provide you with its citation, and tell you
what it says.

My second question would be whether things would change if it were
your aunt who retained the lawyer to clean up the financial issues.
That is, if the lawyer felt somehow obligated to report the financial
abuse if hired by a different family member, would the calculus change
if the client were the aunt. If the attorney-client privilege would
extend to your aunt, perhaps she should be the one who hires the
attorney to resolve the accounting issues.

You might also consider having this accounting performed by an
accountant, and thus might want to inquire as to whether an accountant
would have any reporting duty analogous to that described by the
lawyer.

California seems to be taking elder abuse, including financial abuse,
very seriously. This also does not seem to be a case where there would
be any significant need for a prosecutor to rely upon the testimony of
relatives, as a case would be built on the basis of financial records
and the lack of authorization for your aunt's actions. Also, as
tutuzdad pointed out, lying on a loan application is a crime, and if
your aunt forged your grandfather's name to the loan application that
forgery is an additional crime. It is difficult to know whether the
lending institution would attempt to bring charges under the
circumstances, particularly if the loan has been paid off, but it
remains a possibility.

You may wish to check the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys
website, to try to find a lawyer in your area who is conversant with
these issues:
http://www.naela.com/Applications/ConsumerDirectory/index.cfm

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