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Q: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   12 Comments )
Question  
Subject: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
Category: Relationships and Society > Religion
Asked by: gnossie-ga
List Price: $8.00
Posted: 26 Mar 2005 19:07 PST
Expires: 25 Apr 2005 20:07 PDT
Question ID: 500892
Does the Bible explicitly condemn pre-marital sex?  If so, where?

I don't just mean injunctions about fornication and adultery:  I mean
having sex before marriage.  I know right-wing Christians certainly
do, but what I'm wondering is if they merely project their own higher
values onto the Bible, whether they're in there or not, or if such
prohibitions are in fact articulated.

Please give chapter and verse.

I'm especially interested in New Testament verses, given that Jesus'
whole mercy approach could be taken as abrogating some of the harsher
OT verses.
Answer  
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
Answered By: webadept-ga on 13 Apr 2005 00:05 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi, begging your pardon, but it is answerable. :-)

The Bible breaches this subject more than once. Though it seems a bit
vague at times in the Old Testament, what with Sarai handing over her
handmaiden Hagar for giving birth, when she could not and a few other
episodes:

" Genesis 16
   1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an
handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.
   2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained
me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may
obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai."
   
Which, could suggest that extra-marital sex is okay; until we see that
this is "man's solution" to the problem and not God's, as becomes
clear in the chapters that follow.

Nevertheless, we want to concentrate on the New Testament areas,
rather than the old.

I would beg to differ with one of the comments below, that these
"laws" are one and the same, for Jesus ... seeing that some of his
(Jesus) first acts are: touching a leaper, talking to a woman during
her time of month and gathering food on the Sabbath (all of which were
serious offenses in Old Testament law).

The closest we get really to addressing the subject head on (from your
apparent perspective) is from Paul, in his letter to the Christians in
Cornith. The City of Cornith is a very active trading city, at the
time, with many religions and values inside its walls. It is also a
Port City, with many nationalities walking around doing business with
each other. Cornith is just about as "real world" as it gets. The
questions they write to the Paul are serious, real world questions,
not fluffy feel good questions.

Paul is a smart guy, well trained and educated. He is also a
no-nonsense kind of guy. I personally respect Paul a great deal. With
out him, the Christian faith would probably not have risen off the
ground as well as it did. Peter was the first Pope, but Paul was the
nuts and bolts guy. (maybe a bit too black and white though in some
areas as we will see).

Our first passage to look at here is :
1 Corinthians 6
12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial.
"Everything is permissible for me"-but I will not be mastered by
anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"-but God
will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality,
but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised
the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know
that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the
members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you
not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her
in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he
who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
   18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are
outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who
is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
   
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=6&version=31

The Bible Gateway is a fantastic resource for this kind of study. 

So, a few questions come up at this point, for example, what exactly
does "sinning sexually" mean? and "What is sexual immorality?" might
be a good second

The bond of sex is the bond of life. No getting around that even with
the best birth control, ... life finds a way.

From the passage above " For it is said, "The two will become one
flesh."" (Paul is quoting Gen 2:24 there by the way)... This is more
than just a metaphorical description for the union between male and
female during intercourse, it is a detailed description for "when you
have sex, you make babies".

Getting a woman pregnant and not giving that child a father, was more
than frowned on. You could get yourself and your whole family in
trouble for that one. That is "sinning sexually" ... and if you didn't
marry her, it was considered adultery (as we will get to in a bit).

So prostitutes and getting a woman pregnant outside of wedlock were
not acceptable. Since birth control was not what it is today, having
sex and making babies were the same as far as most people were
concerned. Having sex was not specifically stated as a sin, outside of
wedlock, ... it was more or less a given. Most folks probably thought
that they didn't have to spell everything out for us.

Except Paul of course, who didn't like loose ends like that... 

Chapter Seven of the same book starts out like this:
" 1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to
marry.[a] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have
his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should
fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her
husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her
husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him
alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by
mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to
prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you
because of your lack of selfcontrol. 6I say this as a concession, not
as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his
own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to
stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they
should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
-------------------
Not exactly the most popular portion of the Bible these days, but
there it is, and it is not surprising that many folks don't know about
it, or conveniently forgot about it.

Again, Paul is not strictly stating here that "sex" outside of
marriage is a "sin" in the terms that we think of "sin" today. What he
is saying however is that sex outside of marriage is a really bad
idea, and will open the doors to sins that simply can't be walked away
from, even with the Lord's forgiveness. Not saying the Lord won't
forgive you, but they'll probably throw you into slavery, or stone you
to death anyway, if you get her pregnant (and possibly your family as
well).

Now... here's where the real rub comes in. Children are their own
people, and make decisions, based on their parent's virtues (or lack
there of). Jesus wasn't a mean person, but he had some hard/cold
opinions on a few things, and one of them was regarding children.
Leading them astray wasn't a good idea. This is one of those subjects
that Mathew, Mark, and Luke all agree on. There are differences in the
Gospels, but this isn't one of them.  (Something to do with a
whetstone and the deep blue sea).

Since we are on the subject of Jesus, ... we'll pick Matthew for this
one since he is about as far to the other side of the scale as we can
get from Paul... so Matthew Chapter 19 ...

" 4?Haven't you read,? he replied, ?that at the beginning the Creator
?made them male and female,?[a] 5 and said, ?For this reason a man
will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the
two will become one flesh?[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one.
Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.?

   7 ?Why then,? they asked, ?did Moses command that a man give his
wife a certificate of divorce and send her away??

   8 Jesus replied, ?Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because
your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I
tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital
unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.?

   10The disciples said to him, ?If this is the situation between a
husband and wife, it is better not to marry.?...
----
Got to hand it to those disciples, they weren't always slow on the up beat. 

Marriage was seen as the natural course of things in Jesus day. From
mother and father to husband and wife.

Most of us, in this day of age, think of "marital unfaithfulness" as
something that happens "after marriage" ... this was not the case in
the days of Jesus, for either the man or the woman. The woman was more
focused on, for practical reasons really (they could check with some
certainty that the woman was still a virgin ... for the man all you
could really do is start a really good fight and still get nothing
settled).

The "word" was you went from your mother and father, in to the state
of husband and wife, ... no stopping at Go, no collecting $200.00, or
sowing any wild oats. Marital unfaithfulness dissolved the marriage.

So why the dancing around on the subject? Why not just flat out say
"no sex without official marriage" and be done with it? After all,
Paul is the type of guy that could have gotten away with such a
statement, and backed it up as well. The problem here is the
precedents already set.

God said, "Go forth, be fruitful and multiply."

Who married Adam and Eve? God did, but he didn't have a ceremony and
all that, it was just a given. They are having sex, they have
children, they are husband and wife.

Genesis Chapter 4 :17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant
and gave birth to Enoch." ... so who married them?.. same thing, their
actions did. The lay together, they had children, they are husband and
wife. Simple as that. There was, at this point, no fan fair, no
ceremony no wedding vows. Action and accepted responsibility were all
that were required.

So you can't just go and say sex without official marriage is a sin at
this point. You can say that it is a really bad idea however, for
many, many reasons, and that is what the Bible passages we have today,
and read so far, have done.

However, Adultery is a completely different subject, which is really
what we are talking about here:

adultery n : extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously
interferes with marriage relations
From Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

In the Jewish law, and the law of the time of Jesus, having sex out of
wedlock was either prostitution or adultery, or both, because you were
either selling it or robbing someone of their marriage by your
actions.  So having sex with a woman, meant you were married, or an
adulterer (with precedence set for the married part by example already
given). There was no two ways about this. Leaving that woman (or man)
and having sex with someone else, disgraced yourself and your first
mate. (the one you mated with, hence the term).

Now at this point I can give you chapter and verse for Adultery:

Exodus 20:14 1"You shall not commit adultery."... one of the big ten
there, and though Jesus did stop Mary from being stoned for this one,
we've already seen how he feels about marriage.

Hope that clears it all up for you. 

thanks, 

webadept-ga
gnossie-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Quite a mammoth answer for just 8 bucks!  Thanks.

Comments  
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: eclectro-ga on 26 Mar 2005 20:58 PST
 
Your answer awaits you here;

<a href="http://www.dtl.org/ethics/article/pre-marital/always-sin.htm">http://www.dtl.org/ethics/article/pre-marital/always-sin.htm</a>


If you still have doubt, compare and contrast with Ephesians 5:3 NIV;

"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or
of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for
God's holy people."

As you can see, this is a high standard by itself, and many Christians
would disagree with you when you propose that they "merely project
their own higher
values onto the bible."

Of course there are other people who disagree with many of these (and
other) verses on one grounds or another.

2 Timothy 4:3 NIV;

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a
great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Which brings to mind an oft told tale (in various forms);

"W.C.Fields, who was anything but a religious, or even a very virtuous
person, was waiting for a friend one day in the library of the
friend?s home.  When the friend was ready, and appeared, there he
found Fields intently reading the Bible.  ?Why would YOU be reading
the Bible?? he asked Fields.  ?I?m looking for loopholes, my son,?
said Fields, ?looking for loopholes.?
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: eclectro-ga on 26 Mar 2005 21:00 PST
 
The first link did not render properly. Here it is again by itself;

http://www.dtl.org/ethics/article/pre-marital/always-sin.htm
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: lafingman0-ga on 27 Mar 2005 04:37 PST
 
excellent comments /applause
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: pugwashjw-ga on 27 Mar 2005 20:11 PST
 
Jesus had the same standards as his Father, Almighty God [
Jehovah-Gods personal name-Exodus 6;3] and did forgive sinners..AS
LONG AS THEY STOPPED THEIR SINNING..The harsh O.T. laws were still
operative in Jesus' day. Jesus strictly followed the Mosaic law,
including the celebration of Passover. But at his 'last supper' he
changed this practice for his Apostles by saying 'keep doing this in
remembrance of ME" [ First Corinthians 11;24]. Jesus always said 'Go,
and sin no more'. Sex before marriage is fornication. Sex within
marriage is acceptable to God, after all He invented marriage and it
was his plan to populate the earth. The basic reason is to protect the
family unit.Ephesians Ch.5. , 1Tim.3;2, Titus 1;6.
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: gnossie-ga on 29 Mar 2005 19:49 PST
 
Eclectro-ga:  thanks for the link, that was indeed very useful and a
far more thorough discussion than I was expecting to get here.

For those of you still interested, I believe the question has not been
answered, however, because it cannot be answered.  Or at least, the
answer is, "No, the Bible does not specifically prohibit premarital
sex."

The link to the dtl.org story and the verses cited above merely warn
against sexual immorality.  Fine.  The Bible -- both the OT and the NT
-- have heaps of verses cautioning against this.

But of what specifically does sexual immorality consist of?  Well, the
Greek word used in all these verses, it turns out, is "porneia,"
meaning "illicit sex."

So essentially we have a circular definition:  the Bible enjoins
against sexual immorality, which consists of immoral sex.

Nowhere, it appears, does Jesus say "Don't have sex before you're
married," although there are obvious cautions against adultery. 
There's not even a parable.

Even if you think this approach is wrong-headed, you would have to
admit that, considering the issue's vital importance to so many, it's
odd that the prohibition (or permission) of such activity isn't
spelled out clearly and unmistakably.  Instead it's left to abstruse
lexicographical exegetics.

Apparently the Good Lord wants us to become classical philologists
before we're worthy of receiving a plain and simple answer to an
everyday question.

But enough commentary!  Thanks for your help, everybody.
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: goofind-ga on 31 Mar 2005 20:27 PST
 
I think in Isaih, there a passage that if man is with an unmarried
woman AND IS DISCOVERED, he must pay the woman's father 50 shekels of
silver and OFFER to marry her.
Does this add anything?
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: pugwashjw-ga on 05 Apr 2005 20:04 PDT
 
The Book of Isaiah deals with the Hebrew/Jews as a nation, and only in
chapter 38, does it get specific about any individual [ it was King
Hezekiah]. There are no references to any un-named individual
concerning moral behaviour, but there are plenty of warnings about not
obeying God's commandments. And the Jews had 600 odd to comply with.
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: kriswrite-ga on 05 Apr 2005 22:54 PDT
 
Check this out: http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=105641

"Fornication" literally means "voluntary sexual intercourse between an
unmarried woman and a man, especially an unmarried man." (Webster's
New Universal Unabridged Dictionary)

Kriswrite
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: brad88-ga on 09 Apr 2005 22:37 PDT
 
In Ephesians Chapter 5 line 3-5 in specifically staes that, "But
FORNICATION, and all uncleanliness or covetousness, let it not be once
named among you.....Hath no inheritance in the kingdom of christ and
God"

Definition of FORNICATION:Sexual intercourse between partners who are
not married to each other.
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: dops-ga on 12 Apr 2005 07:46 PDT
 
Is it only premarital? If you never marry, can you have all the sex that you want?
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: quantummechanique-ga on 05 Dec 2005 14:54 PST
 
1 Cortinth. Chapter 13.

If you have the law of love, you will find the answer.
Subject: Re: question about pre-marital sex and the Bible
From: incrediraz-ga on 23 Mar 2006 23:19 PST
 
Ok for everyone who just gave the definition of fornication, you are
right about your websters dictionary definition, but the problem is
that the Bible translators translated the word Porneia as
"Fornication".  Porneia in those days had nothing to do with pre
marital sex.  Not one thing.  Porneia was the act of having sex with
the paid prostitutes in the temple of the goddess Diana.  That was to
give your sex act over to another god which is of course strictly
forbidden by God.  Our translators did their best but really blew it
on this one.  Keep in mind that they couldn't have premarital sex in
those days, gosh they were married at the ages of 12 and 13 and mostly
by betrothal.  They likely didn't hardly know what sex was.  Again I
must also add that to be married in the bible was to simply have
consentual sex.  There is no biblical record of a marriage ceremony in
either of the testaments.  You will not find this answer agrees with
most fundamental Christian teaching.  However it is nonetheless
correct.  If we would understand the "heart" of christianity here we
would see that the problem oould never be 2 people in love having sex
and wondering if they are legally married.  Before God that is silly. 
If you intend to spend your life with someone and begin having sex
with that person, you're married already with or without the piece of
paper sanctioned by man.  God's heart is against the pain of adultery.
 Now that's different.  The bible is totally against that and if
you've ever felt that pain, you know that you don't need to be a
rocket scientist to know that it is wrong.  It hurts!  It breaks up
families!  It causes years of grief and pain.  The only thing wrong
with having sex before you are legally married today is the fact that
if you're involved with the church you will offend people.  People
tend to get quite religious about it and love to point their fingers
at everyone except themselves.  It could never be sin for 2 people who
love each other and intend to spend their entire lives together to
have sex prior to being legally married.  The legal marriage contract
is not biblical.  But to save harrassment, go out and get that
document and keep those Baptists happy.

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