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Subject:
Are these games legal to download?
Category: Computers > Games Asked by: movieman89-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
04 Apr 2005 11:51 PDT
Expires: 04 May 2005 11:51 PDT Question ID: 504787 |
Are these games legal to download? -Alone in the Dark 1 - -Descent - -Ecoquest - -Ecoquest 2 - -Jack in the Dark - -Little Big Adventures: Twinsens's Adventure - -Prince of Persia - -UFO Enemy Unknown - -Veil of Darkness |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: mister2u-ga on 04 Apr 2005 13:41 PDT |
They are technically illegal.They fall into a grey area known as abandonware.The site owners that host these games will usually remove them if requested by their lawful owners.You will probably not be able to buy them anywhere either. |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: mister2u-ga on 04 Apr 2005 13:43 PDT |
Read more here http://www.the-underdogs.org/faq.php |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: athena4-ga on 04 Apr 2005 17:09 PDT |
The 'legal status of abandonware' is unclear (you can check using that phrase on Google) at this time. If you want a legal answer, a lawyer would be the right person to go to. For practical purposes, try buying the games first. If they are in fact abandonware, downloading and using them still respects the intent of the copyright (but perhaps not the letter of the law, which probably needs a revision). If the copyright holder wants you to stop using it or pay for it, be ready to do that (or pay whatever reasonable price for its past/continued use). If the worst happens and you get sued, where are they going to find a jury that will convict? :) |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: ipfan-ga on 07 Apr 2005 08:19 PDT |
Dear mister2u-ga, Thanks for the link to the underdogs site--I am a copyright and Internet lawyer, and I confess with embarrassment that I had not heard the term abandonware until I read your post and the FAQs. Most interesting! From your comment, I assume that you know or understand where movieman89 is going to get these games. Do you know for sure that the various publishers have discontinued them and that they are indeed "abandonware?" (I am assuming the publisher is the entity or person that actually owns the copyright). I ask because under copyright law, and assuming that these are works made for hire, the copyright in them last for 95 years from the date of first publication (the date they were released to the public). So, unless (a) the publisher has actively, volitionally surrendered the copyright and released the games to the public domain, (b) a court has determined that there is no valid copyright in the games for one of a variety of legal or factual reasons, (c) the sites from which movieman89 downloads them has a license from the publishers, or (d) movieman89's downloading them is a fair use under copyright law, then I agree with you that downloading them is likely copyright infringement. Athena4, I am intrigued by your comment that "downloading and using them still respects the intent of the copyright (but perhaps not the letter of the law, which probably needs a revision)." What did you mean by that? There is no legal basis for your position; if one or more of the four above exceptions are not present, the act of downloading them is by definition an act of copyright infringement. Regards, IPFan |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: mister2u-ga on 07 Apr 2005 08:50 PDT |
From your comment, I assume that you know or understand where movieman89 is going to get these games. Do you know for sure that the various publishers have discontinued them and that they are indeed "abandonware?" These games are generally considered abandonware.In the case of Prince of Persia the game is still being made,it's the older versions that are no longer being sold.With some abandonware the company that made them no longer exists.For the most part the legality is a non issue except in cases where the copywrite owner specifically requests a game not be distributed(and it does happen).Most companies don't care about a product which thet no longer sell. |
Subject:
Abandonware is a vague term
From: lacus_odii-ga on 07 Apr 2005 09:01 PDT |
Abandonware is defined differently by different people. Home of the Underdogs defines it as games that have been discontinued due to poor sales. This is different than the traditional definition (at least when I was younger), which is as follows: A discontinued game where the copyright holder no longer exists as a legal entity, or cannot be located. By this definition, Athena4's comment is completely accurate. According to the United States Constitution, copyright serves to enhance the public good by allowing creators to profit from their works as an incentive to create. If a copyright holder is dead, dissolved, or otherwise unlocatable, distributing abandonware does not hurt the copyright holder, creates no disincentive for creators to create, and the public good is served, having received creative work. The purpose of copyright is served, but it's still illegal! On the other hand, the common interpretation of abandonware is an excuse for copyright infringement. For many of the games listed above, the copyright holder is still around. Their rights are intact. They could, at their discretion, choose to release these games again, perhaps for a portable platform. For example, consider Atari 2600 games: Many people considered these games abandonware. After all, they were no longer available, after many years, being perceived as unviable. However, the copyright is still in effect on them. These games have recently been rereleased for platforms such as pocketPC and cellphones, which they are well-suited for. I believe this demonstrates that the common interpretation of abandonware is not valid, as old games are still perfectly viable in many cases. That a publisher chooses not to release one game or another is irrelevant; it is their property to do with as they wish (though it may not serve the public good to do so.) The real question abandonware asks is, is it sane for copyright to be almost a hundred years, survive the creator's death, and be extended indefinitely whenever Mickey Mouse comes up for copyright expiration? It clearly contradicts the constitutionally stated purpose of copyright, but I guess it's pretty nice if you're a multi-billion dollar copyright holder. Every one of these games have been invented in the last hundred years, all of them are undercopyright unless someone can post a link to an explicit statement from the copyright holder releasing the game into the public domain. Otherwise none of them are technically legal to download. |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: ipfan-ga on 07 Apr 2005 11:23 PDT |
Dear lacus_odii ("Lake of Hatred"? Yikes!), Excellent observations. You may enjoy reading the opinion at http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blogs/sprigman/archives/order2.pdf since it supports the position in your third paragraph, that it's still illegal despite the Constitutional imperative regarding profit motive. |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: john_s-ga on 08 Apr 2005 02:32 PDT |
The atari games I always saw for pcoket pc were simply emulators where you used illegally downloaded ROMs of games to play. |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: athena4-ga on 11 Apr 2005 17:02 PDT |
ipfan-ga asked " Athena4, I am intrigued by your comment that "downloading and using them still respects the intent of the copyright (but perhaps not the letter of the law, which probably needs a revision)." " I didn't mean to start an argument (and hence the suggestion to see a lawyer) and was suggesting a reasonable, practical way to use those works. Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution (1787) says that the US Congress shall have the power "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;" - the key phrase for me in this case being "to promote" rather than deny it to the people. Of course, it is all opinion/interpretation till tested in courts, but my suggestion stands the reasonable-person test. (You may also want to check out "Jury Nullification".) |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: jpparker88-ga on 23 Apr 2005 17:16 PDT |
it's illegal. most everything is. espically when it comes to computers. |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: justin4u-ga on 24 Apr 2005 06:52 PDT |
Of Course ... This Games Are To Old And The Producers Alowed to Play them Free So We Can Download them Free And Play |
Subject:
Re: Are these games legal to download?
From: detroitbill-ga on 26 Apr 2005 12:35 PDT |
No downloading these games is illegal. I would contact Game Instinct for available options: http://www.gameinstinct.com/services.html |
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