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Subject:
Coupon payment on bond sold short
Category: Business and Money > Finance Asked by: nwr-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
08 Apr 2005 09:45 PDT
Expires: 08 May 2005 09:45 PDT Question ID: 506794 |
I know that when a bond is sold short, the seller (the holder of the short position) in effect MAKES coupon payments on the bond. However, the seller does not actually make payments to the buyer, since the buyer, as owner of record, will get the coupon payments from the issuer. Can someone please explain to me how the holder of the short position in effect makes coupon payments? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Coupon payment on bond sold short
From: ssmithfl-ga on 08 Apr 2005 11:12 PDT |
The short answer, without citations, is that the payment you make as the "short seller" is to the "owner/lender," not the buyer. The buyer (of record) receives the interest coupon. However, the "owner" also wants the "missing" coupon. His broker makes a claim for that amount from your broker, which pays it and bills your account. They make the claim on the basis of their internal "securities lent" and "securities borrowed" records. At this point, then, you have "borrowed one security and one interest payment" from the owner and repaid "one interest payment." The downstream "buyer" remains blissfully unaware of all this background action. |
Subject:
Re: Coupon payment on bond sold short
From: nwr-ga on 08 Apr 2005 16:28 PDT |
Thanks for your response. But, if the "buyer" is the owner of record from the "sale" and gets a coupon pmt from the issuer, who is the owner of record of the bonds borrowed by the "short seller"? If it is the "short seller" then wouldn't the "short seller" receive a coupon payment from the issuer and then the "lender" would make a claim for the payment, thereby making the it a non-cash event for the "short seller" since it is just passing the payment on (and in effect not making a coupon payment)? Or, if the "lender" is the owner of record for the borrowed bonds, then wouldn't the lender receive the payment from the issuer, thereby not having to collect from the "borrower"? Hence, it is again a non-cash event for the borrower? The problem I have is that in this scenario I see only two owners of record for the bonds, but three coupon payments: one to the "buyer" from the issuer as an owner of record, one to the "lender" from the issuer as an owner of record, and one from the "borrower" to the "lender". Seems to me there should only be two payments, both from the issuer to the two owners of record. But if the "borrower" is also making a coupon payment (to the lender), then wouldn't that be one payment too many??? In my company we short bonds and cover the shorts by borrowing the bonds on Repo. If we are in possession of borrowed bonds on the coupon record date, the lender makes a claim to us for the coupon payment. The missing piece to this is, who gets the coupon payment FROM THE ISSUER relating to the bonds we have borrowed? If we get it (because we are in possession of the bonds) and pass it on to the lender, then it is a wash for us, yet I know somehow we, at least "effectively", incur a coupon payment for being short the bonds. If the lender gets it (even though he's loaned them to us) then why would he make a claim for it from us?? Sorry for babbling. Any more help is greatly appreciated. |
Subject:
Re: Coupon payment on bond sold short
From: ssmithfl-ga on 08 Apr 2005 17:00 PDT |
I think the underlying difficulty in this area is that you are dealing with a three party transaction, so you have to stop looking for something flowing back each step of the way. It's easier to follow if you cut it up into lots of steps, and always keep in mind, there is only one "bond" - like the sidewalk teacup scams, keep your eye on the ball: (1) In the pre-short state, Owner had a bond, Seller did not, and Buyer did not. The title was in Owner's name. (2)At the time of the short sale, Owner hands/lends Seller the Bond (or Seller's Broker, i.e.) who then turns around and hands it to the Buyer. Buyer hands cash for the Bond back to Seller. Thus, at this point, Owner has an "iou" from Seller/Seller's Broker, Seller has some cash and owes the "iou," and Buyer has a bond now duly registered in Buyer's name. (3) When the coupon is paid, only one check goes out, to Buyer. That's the only "real" bond out there. (4) That same day, whenever interest is paid by the issuer, Owner's broker reminds Seller's broker that Seller promised to "make good" on anything paid on the bond while it was on loan; Seller's Broker settles up, and charges Seller. (5) The trick is to start viewing the "short sale" as a "stream of payments," not as a "one time event" ... the risk (including payments due the lender in lieu of coupons, and interest on the amount borrowed) grows with time...until you close out the short. |
Subject:
Re: Coupon payment on bond sold short
From: elwtee-ga on 09 Apr 2005 08:55 PDT |
sometimes we confuse ourselves by making things too technical thereby complicating what at it's core is a fairly straight forward operation. i am going to skip all the backroom due bills and interactions between brokerage firms and attempt to boil this down to a few sentences. there are three parties in your transaction. a buyer, a short seller, and an owner. clearly the owner is entitled to an interest payment he owns the bond. clearly the buyer is entitled to an interest payment, he also bought and now owns the bond. clearly we now have two owners of the same instrument each entitled to and expecting a check on the payment date. clearly, the issuer is only going to issue one payment, leaving one of our owners bitterly disappointed. the obligation of the short seller, who never owned and continues to not own any assets in the transaction is obligated by his actions to make one of the owners whole. in selling something he didn't own, he in effect created a security and is now obligated as is the issuer to make payments on his creation until it is retired. one of the problems in the scenario as you created it is that the short seller is not, as you assumed, a holder of record. he was never on the books of the issuer. think about that for a minute. how could he be a record holder? holder of what? he never owned anything. i also suggest that your attempt to identify holders of record is causing you a problem. the most likely scenario is that the two long positions are in street name. the issuer then pays in bulk to the brokerage firms who then in turn distribute the funds to the proper holding accounts. if you are determined to have a registered security in your example only the buyer can actually take delivery. he engaged in a simply purchase and owns the bond. the short seller owns nothing and hence has nothing to register. the owner can't register and take delivery because his ownership has been assigned by loan elsewhere. you can't register and hold what you have lent out. like a five dollar bill. i can't lend it to you and keep it in my pocket at the same time. well that went more than the few sentences i promised. frankly it covers the same ground as the previous reply but in different text. i hope that lent some perspective to your inquiry. |
Subject:
Re: Coupon payment on bond sold short
From: nwr-ga on 09 Apr 2005 13:20 PDT |
Thanks very much to both of you. Your answers cleared it up for me. I was missing the point that the short seller in effect creates another bond (synthetic) and issues it. It must pay the cash flows relating to it. Thanks again. |
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