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Subject:
Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: brummiebloke-ga List Price: $50.00 |
Posted:
14 Apr 2005 05:54 PDT
Expires: 14 May 2005 05:54 PDT Question ID: 509110 |
I am trying to design a device to throw a tomato a distance of 50 metres. The device is to be pneumatic and use a captive piston within a barrel to actually fire the tomato. The barrel is to be made from steel pipe and a suitable diameter to carry the tomato and a common size to carry the piston. The piston is to be pressurised by a 58 litre beer keg connected by as large a valve as we can find off the shelf. The keg acts as a pressure receiver and will be pressurised by a yet unsized compressor. Can anybody provide me with the following: => Comments on our overall design proposal, strengths weaknesses etc. => The muzzle velocity required to carry the tomato over that distance and consequentially the component dimensions and pressures required to achieve this. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: redhoss-ga on 14 Apr 2005 07:27 PDT |
What a great project. My friends and I spent many joyful hours blasting things into orbit with an oxyacetylene cannon that I made. Although we used many different objects for ammo, our favorite was green apples. We used rags for wadding and blasted the apples about 200/300 yards. I have no idea what the muzzle velocity was, but if you didn't watch very closely you would lose sight of the apple. Sometimes we made applesauce in midair. I have a small air cannon that I recently built, but it just isn't as much fun. I doubt that you need to use steel pipe for your barrel. The captive piston idea might work if you use something very light. You should be able to launch tomatoes 150 feet without making juice (until they land). |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: just4fun2-ga on 14 Apr 2005 11:38 PDT |
http://platinumchromatography.com/potato.htm http://www.spudtech.com/content.asp?id=29 |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: bozo99-ga on 14 Apr 2005 13:56 PDT |
About 18 m/s at 45 degrees is needed to travel 50m horizontally. To get the necessary length of powered travel calulate the K.E. (1/2 m v**2) of tomato plus piston at muzzle velocity and divide by the force used (pressure * area). |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: myoarin-ga on 14 Apr 2005 17:55 PDT |
When is the next election campaign in your area? I won't need one till next year. Are you planning to sell them? ;-} |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: brummiebloke-ga on 15 Apr 2005 03:20 PDT |
Redhoss - We had some great ideas about using propane gas until we were warned about the possibilities of blowing ourselves up - I must say high pressure pneumatics aren't much better so who knows!! We were planning on using an ally piston from a small petrol engine so that it would be a reasonable sliding fit in the barrel. An exhaust port was to be added at the end of its travel to allow the pressure to discharge Myoarin - Good point! ideally you would want the flexibility to switch loads to rotten eggs as well as tomatos for politicians. Something tells me they wouldn't see the funny side of it these days though {:-( |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: iang-ga on 15 Apr 2005 05:29 PDT |
You'll need to know the maximum acceleration you can apply to a tomato so as not to liquidise it in the barrel - should be a fun experiment! Does it have to be a ripe tomato? It might be worth seeing if you could make a sabot to give some support. Ian G. |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: myoarin-ga on 15 Apr 2005 10:56 PDT |
The trick is going to be getting the optimum paintball effect on target and not when you let the thing fly. If your tomatoes are very much the same size, they could fit in a cup on the piston (I don't want any wadding or the like flying around when I playing Jackal. Yes, I would need very ripe tomatoes; the firm ones don't provide the desired effect. But Brummiebloke may have other targets in mind). One way to avoid this problem would be to have something that accelerated during the projection - instead of just slapping the tomato with full force. I think that those hunting bows that have pulleys do this. Rig one up with a tube - slotted for the bowstring - and a lightweight cup (pieces from an eggcarton or the like, maybe on a string to keep it from it from going astray - would have to be reinforced where the string bears on it), and off it goes. Yeah, I bet you could achiever 18m/sec, but of course a tomato would slow down rather soon. And then you have the problem of aiming and dealing with tomatoes of different weight. I could see you doing a lot of target practice with schedules of weight, diameter ... But that will keep you off the street for a while. But then ...! ,-) |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: racecar-ga on 15 Apr 2005 14:36 PDT |
50 meters is nothing with a pneumatic gun. bozo99 appears to have underestimated the necessary muzzle velocity though. With no air resistance, it takes a muzzle velocity of 22 m/s to shoot 50 m with gun elevation at 45 degrees. Muzzle velocity depends on mass of the tomato+piston, pressure, barrel diameter, barrel length, and amount of friction. If friction is low, you only need about 10 psi of pressure to shoot 50 meters, assuming a tomato+piston mass of half a pound, barrel length of 4 feet, and barrel diameter of 2.5 inches. Propane is not a good idea though, not because of any risk of blowing yourself up, but because it just doesn't work. It makes a very weak 'fwoop' sound and a flame shoots out the end of the barrel, but it doesn't burn fast enough to shoot anything very well. If you want to use explosive gas instead of pressurized air, hairspray or starter fluid (ether) work much better, or, if you want to get dangerous, oxygen and acetyene as mentioned by redhoss. I think your biggest design problem is going to be the piston. If it stops abruptly at the end of the barrel, finding a design that won't bang itself to pieces will be a challenge. One possibility is to use a lightweight cup for the piston, and tether it to the gun with a longish bit of stretchy string. The cup and tomato will leave the barrel together, but the string will soon stop the cup. You may have some misfires if the cup tends to turn around backward before the string goes tight though. |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: redhoss-ga on 15 Apr 2005 15:04 PDT |
A gun by any definition is dangerous. One of my friends used to say, "If you're going to be a bear be a Grizzly bear". Of course what he meant is, if you want to do something go for the gusto. If you want to have fun and launch something, why not do a proper job. Yes, propane and oxyacetylene might be considered dangerous by some of the faint hearted. However, I wouldn't trade any of the time I have spent blasting old motorcycle parts, small animals, fruit, and whatever into the stratosphere in the name of science and beer for anything. If someone dies in the process, so what. Science and beer are worth much more to me than safety. Safety is a four letter word as far as I am concerned. Fun and insanity are the best entertainment. Get the most volitale fuel you can find and blast the biggest tomatoe as far as you can. I wouldn't quit until I fired one at least a quarter of a mile. |
Subject:
Re: Pneumatic Tomato Gun Design
From: bavetta-ga on 29 Apr 2005 11:08 PDT |
I made this spreadsheet a little while back so we could play with the barrel length and other parameters of our water-balloon launchers. It assumes adiabatic expansion of the air (no temperature passes through the PVC while the air expands) and uses the base equation P1*V1^(gamma)=P2*V2^(gamma) where P = Pressure [Pascals] (remember to add atmospheric in with the gauge pressure) V = volume [m^3] and gamma is approximately 1.4 for air. What is not accounted for is air passing around the projectile as it goes down the barrel and air resistance once it exits the barrel - as those are hard to model and depend heavily on the specific parameters of the projectile. The numbers should give a good starting point though. Here is the spreadsheet in excel format: http://www.bavetta.com/aircannon.xls |
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