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Q: Perception of odour ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Perception of odour
Category: Health > Conditions and Diseases
Asked by: engineer84-ga
List Price: $8.00
Posted: 20 Apr 2005 14:36 PDT
Expires: 20 May 2005 14:36 PDT
Question ID: 511970
Expostulating wildly (in the pub, the other night) I made the bold
claim that the reason that herbivore faeces don't smell bad, and
carnivore faeces do, is that over evolutionary time we've been
unlikely to catch something that will kill us from herbivore faeces
and likely to catch something that will kill us from carnivore faeces.

How far from the truth was I?


I will accept any answer that links to credible research. You get full
marks whether that research supports my hypothesis or refutes it.
Jokes about how interesting my pub conversations are will be tolerantly disregarded.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Perception of odour
Answered By: crabcakes-ga on 20 Apr 2005 23:02 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello engineer84,

   I have a feeling you owe your friends a few drinks! Have you ever
visited a cattle farm, or walked in a parade behind a horse? Both of
these herbivores? waste products emit a very noxious odor! From what I
have found, horse manure stinks, but it is not very pathogenic, or
disease causing. Cow manure, on the other hand does contain organisms
that can make humans sick, even fatally so! Years ago, I had a pet
rabbit, and the rabbit pellets also had a bad odor!

?No major human disease has ever been accurately attributed to the
intimate contact human beings have had with horses for thousands of
years. (Deuel, 1989) "Human pathogens are rarely a concern in
farm-generated wastes"
http://www.californiastatehorsemen.com/enviro-waste.htm

?WHAT MAKES FECES SMELL SO BAD? The bacteria inside of the feces is
what makes them smell so bad. Specifically, the bacteria produce
various compounds and gases that lead to the infamous smell of feces.
Just in case you were wondering, you can get very sick by eating feces
because it contains so many types of bacteria and other harmful
substances such as parasites. So we wouldn't suggest adding feces to
your diet any time soon.?
http://www.medfriendly.com/feces.html#smell


?Herbivores are classified into: pre-gastric  fermentors, ruminants or
pseudo-ruminants; and  post-gastric fermentors, whose cecum has
evolved  to function similarly to a degree as the forestomach of
ruminants. Cows, sheep, goats and deer  are ruminants, horses and
rabbits are members of  the second group.?
http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/AgrEnv/ndd/goat/DIGESTION.html


What is an herbivore?
http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/marssim/simhtml/info/whats-a-herbivore.html

?This is another nematode parasite with a complicated life cycle. The
adult worms live in the sinuses and blood supply of the tissue
covering the brain of the deer (upper picture). The adult worms
produce eggs that are carried via the blood to the lungs where they
hatch. The larvae migrate up the trachea, cross over to the esophagus,
and are passed out of the body with the feces. These larvae then
penetrate one of several snails or slugs where further development of
the parasite occurs. Other deer become infected when the ingest the
infected mollusks. In white-tailed deer, the parasite causes little
problems, inspire of its location of infection. When abnormal hosts
such as elk, moose, llamas, goats, etc. ingest the infected snails,
abnormal migrations of the parasite often occur, usually resulting in
both neuralgic abnormalities and death. In Oklahoma , the parasite is
restricted to the eastern and southeastern regions of the state.
Reports have implicated the presence of this parasite with
unsuccessful restocking efforts for elk in eastern regions. Additional
reports have demonstrated that habitat manipulation may help reduce
the infection levels in some susceptible species. Successful treatment
is not available but the reduction of overlapping range appears to
reduce accidental infections.?** Warning- Graphic pictures.
http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/instruction/kocan/vpar5333/deerpar.htm



?Livestock manure is an important primary source of pathogenic
bacteria contamination of the live animal, food products of both
animal and plant origin, and water, thus presents a significant human
health risk.? And ?he CDC has estimated that foodborne disease may
result in as many as 76 million illnesses and 5000 deaths in the U.S.
each year. In addition to human illness, food safety problems can
cause economic losses to producers, processors, and consumers, and
jeopardize the international competitiveness of the U.S. agriculture
industry. The accumulation of knowledge of the important biological
and environmental contributors to pathogen occurrence in livestock and
manure, along with the development of procedures to reduce the
occurrence and transmission of zoonotic pathogens in livestock manure,
will contribute to a safer food and water supply and a lower risk of
human foodborne illness.?
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects/projects.htm?ACCN_NO=404805&showpars=true&fy=2002

?Campylobacter species, particularly Campylobacter jejuni and C. coli,
are one of the most common causes of acute diarrheal disease
(campylobacteriosis) in humans throughout the world, including in
Canada.
Currently, poultry are thought to be the primary reservoir of
Campylobacter infecting humans. However there are strong indications
that cattle are a major source as well.?
http://www.albertabeef.org/CABIDF/03reports/58inglisF.html

Hantavirus from white footed mice ?Hantaviruses ? transmitted through
feces or urine, resistant to drying?
http://www.abcrc.virginia.edu/waiver/zoonoticdiseases.html


?Weiss and Seeliger (10) isolated 154 strains of L. monocytogenes in
Germany from soil and plants, 16 from feces of deer and stag, nine
from moldy fodder and wildlife feeding grounds, and eight from birds.?
http://www.sproutnet.com/Research/produce_handling_and_processing.htm

?Gastrointestinal campylobacteriosis, caused by Campylobacter jejuni
or C coli , is now recognized as a cause of diarrhea in various animal
hosts, including dogs, cats, calves, sheep, ferrets, mink, several
species of laboratory animals, and man. In man, it is a leading cause
of diarrhea. Campylobacter jejuni and C coli are also recovered from
feces of asymptomatic carriers. Animals, including dogs and cats
(especially those recently purchased from shelters or pounds) as well
as wild animals maintained in captivity, can serve as sources of human
infection. The agent(s) also is isolated frequently from the feces of
chickens, turkeys, pigs, and other species.?
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/20200.htm

?All reptiles (herbivore, omnivore or carnivore) can carry the
Salmonella species of bacteria.  Contact with reptiles has been
directly implicated in human Salmonellosis outbreaks.  Reptiles
carrying the pathogenic agent typically exhibit no signs of illness
themselves.  Washing hands after handling, (or avoiding contact with
reptiles if you have children under 5 years of age, are pregnant, or
if you are immunocompromised) are typical CDC recommendations. 
Hand-washing after handling is prudent.  Cleaning potentially soiled
reptile utensils, capture tools or housing accoutrements in human food
preparation areas is to be avoided.
Working with fish and aquatic amphibians:
Aquatic species can carry pathogenic bacteria such as Klebsiella and
other gram negative and gram positive bacteria, although these rarely
lead to human infections under normal conditions.  In addition,
Edwardsiella tarda and atypical Mycobacteria species, carried by
aquatic species are known human pathogens.?
http://www.abcrc.virginia.edu/waiver/zoonoticdiseases.html


?This coprolite, from my personal fossil collection, was deposited by
a turtle in Eocene rocks. Geology says these rocks are 38-55 million
years old. The coprolite today is rock-hard and has no smell.?
Warning** Graphic picture of fossilized turtle dung!
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bathroom.htm

To summarize, some waste products smell worse than others! Some feces
contain more odor-producing wee beasties than others. Most feces are
capable of transmitting disease, be it from carnivore or herbivore.
Composition of feces, along with the ?aroma? depends on what the
herbivore/carnivore eats, and what kind of normal intestinal flora the
gut contains. Digesting food produces gasses, which are the actual
source of the smell. I would think timing plays a part when it comes
to odor. Fresh feces would affect the olfactory receptors more so than
old, dried specimens! Many people around the world burn dried cow or
ox dung as fuel.

?In the evening, the cattle, goats, and other domestic animals are
brought inside the kraal to protect them against wild animals. The
women of the village usually build the huts which takes them about 7
months. They are built with branches, twigs, grass, and cow dung and
urine formed into a plaster and applied to a branch frame. The mixture
is as strong as cement after it dried in the sun and does not smell.
They cannot stand up straight inside the hut and the only openings are
that of the doorway and a small opening in the roof or wall which
allows smoke from a continually blazing fire inside to escape.
http://www.siyabona.com/africa_maasai.html

Another interesting read on cow dung
http://www.tibettour.com.cn/ent/geography/..%5Cgeography/2004120041223143202.htm


There you go! (No pun intended) If any part of my answer is unclear,
please request an Answer Clarification, before rating!

Regards, Crabcakes

Search Terms
Pathogenic organisms + herbivore feces
Pathogenic organisms + carnivore feces
Pathogens + bovine feces

Request for Answer Clarification by engineer84-ga on 21 Apr 2005 04:19 PDT
With no more work you've earned a happy four star rating.

The last star comes with information on the _relative_
danger/transmissibility to humans of the pathogens in herbivore feces
and carnivore feces.
Your first link seems to imply that "farm-generated wastes" are fairly
benign (which would generally mean herbivore waste (few carnivores are
farmed [thought: pigs are omnivores, speculation: but probably fed
more veg than meat in captivity])). Later links establish:
1) that bacteria have a role in smell;
2) what herbivores are;
3) that there exist herbivore, carnivore and omnivore disease
infection vectors that include feces (but nothing on relative
transmissibility through feces).


(If you think I'm being unreasonable for an $8 question, say so... and
<giggle> about the graphic fossilized turtle dung warning).

Clarification of Answer by crabcakes-ga on 21 Apr 2005 19:26 PDT
Hi engineer84,
   Sorry you think I fell short of the 5 star mark! I'm working on
your clarification now!

   Regards, Crabcakes

Clarification of Answer by crabcakes-ga on 22 Apr 2005 10:20 PDT
Hello engineer84,

    Transmission of disease through animal feces,  carnivorous or
herbivorous, comes about through inhalation of spores, entrance into
the body through cuts, sores, blisters, etc., and orally (No, not from
coprophagia. One unknowingly steps or sits on feces while camping,
takes off the shorts or boots, inadvertently touches the excrement,
and then eats beef jerky or trail mix!). A healthy person may have an
acquired immunity to many microbiological agents, but the young, the
elderly and the immuno-compromised (HIV patients, transplant patients,
etc.) would be more likely to contract an infection through fecal
contact.

   It has been proven that herbivore feces do contain bacteria and
possibly viruses that can transmit disease to humans. The likelihood
of a human contracting an infection would depend on the time spent in
the wild. In the first part of my answer, I showed horse feces to be
fairly non-hazardous, but that bovine feces are very capable of
transmitting disease to humans.

This very long article (162 pages) may help explain modes of transmission to you.
*** I warn of graphic pictures because this answer is visible to
anyone with computer access. Some people do not care to view pictures
of this nature).
*** There are some graphic pictures on this site of dead animals and
internal organs.
http://www.unbc.ca/nlui/wildlife_diseases_bc/bc_wildlife_disease.pdf

This list does not specify which animal may transmit these diseases,
but names the diseases:
FECAL CONTAMINATION
Bird Droppings
Bayliscaris Procyonis (raccoon roundworm)
SALMONELLOSIS
GIARDIASIS
CRYTOSPORIDIOSIS
TOXOPLASMOSIS
TOXOCARIASIS
ECHINOCOCCOSIS
HEPATIC-CAPILLARIASIS
CAMPYLOBACTERIOSIS
SHIGELLOSIS
YERSINOSIS 
Hanta Virus 
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:JPo5uQwB2RcJ:www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animaldiseases.htm+disease+transmission+%2B+animal++feces&hl=en

Here?s a chart that shows some forms of disease transmission. Most are
not through fecal contact however.
http://www.crittercontrol.com/diseases.htm

Petting Zoos
http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/ts/Zoo/RecommendationsPettingZoo.pdf

There you go, engineer84. ?(If you think I'm being unreasonable for an
$8 question, say so...). While I do think this was quite a bit of
research for the fee, I chose to take on the question, and was happy
to perform the additional research.

Sincerely, Crabcakes
engineer84-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars

Comments  
Subject: Re: Perception of odour
From: rhenium-ga on 21 Apr 2005 17:07 PDT
 
Contamination of water with herbivore feces is a big problem, so it
shouldn't be hard to find references. Here's two:

"Another E. coli victim files suit

[...] As of Wednesday, 34 people in San Diego County who ate the
lettuce have become ill since late September, and a handful of North
County residents remained hospitalized this week with E. coli
poisoning, which causes severe vomiting, bloody diarrhea and in severe
cases, kidney failure.

According to state and local health officials, the bacteria, which is
found in cow dung, came from bags of pre-packaged lettuce grown by
Gold Coast, an Oxnard company, and distributed by F.T. Produce Inc. of
Anaheim."

http://www.ifsea.org/E-ColiOutbreak.htm

----------
"Manure's polluting effect unknown
scientists: Agriculture Canada admits more research is needed

[...] Canada is boosting more high-intensity livestock farms -- even
though the government reveals it doesn't know how to keep manure from
polluting more of the country's shorelines.

As signs go up declaring a massive stretch of Lake Huron beaches
permanently polluted from dangerously high levels of E. coli, internal
documents show Agriculture Canada has poured $2 million into research
on how to control manure pollution.

But the researchers are telling government the effects of manure on
health and the environment aren't really understood."

http://www.northwesthuron.com/tomspearsstory3.html

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