I am looking to find a supplier for a certain PH indicator. The
indicator is Trinitrobenzoic acid sodium salt or it is also called
sodium trinitrobenzoate.

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 23 Apr 2005 20:22 PDT

someday,

Wouldn't happen to have a CAS number now, would you...?

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 23 Apr 2005 20:23 PDT

Also, what sort of quantity are you looking for?

---

Clarification of Question by someday-ga on 23 Apr 2005 20:36 PDT

I posted the question, but I am not a chemist. I can ask our senior
chemist on Monday if we have a CAS number. We are looking to receive
10 grams immediately, with the possibility of large quantities later.

Dear someday,

Thanks for your question. 

The CAS# for trinitrobenzoic acid (TNBA) is 129-66-8.  The UN/NA ID#
is UN1355.  The compound is not widely available, in part because it
is considered an explosive (a breakdown product of TNT, actually). 
For transportation purposes, it is considered a Class A Explosive
(same class as TNT), so few companies are willing to ship it and
obtaining supplies of it quickly is difficult, unless it is
synthesized on site.


A good, general resource for finding chemicals is the BuyersGuideChem:
http://www.buyersguidechem.de/
http://www.chembuyersguide.com/

Searching this database (both the US and German versions) generates
only 4 sources.  Here is a link to the list of sources:
http://www.buyersguidechem.de/AliefAus.php?pnu=190993601878&cass=129-66-8

These are the sources in the above list, with links and e-mail
addresses for the two companies who actually produce the substance,
and would be the best sources to contact for larger quantities.

________________________________________________

Chemos GmbH (Germany) 
Unfortunately, a search of the company's online catalog turned up
nothing, so I believe they have stopped supplying this chemical.

Werner-von-Siemens-Str. 3
D-93128 Regenstauf, Germany

Phone	+49-9402-9336 0
Fax	+49-9402-933 613
Email	sales@chemos-group.com Message Box
http://www.chemos-group.com
________________________________________________

Dayang Chemicals Co. Ltd., Export Dept. (P.R.China) 	   


A/5F 1539 Fuli Building, 328# WenEr Rd.
Hangzhou City 310012, P.R.China
Phone	+86-571-8893-8657/ 8893-8651
Fax	+86-571-8893-8652

Sales contact	Export department
Email	sales@chinadayangchem.com
________________________________________________


NSTU Chemicals Hangzhou Co. (P.R.China), producer
http://www.buyersguidechem.de/AfirmAus.php?fnumm=32126727&pname=2,4,6-Trinitrobenzoic%20acid&cass=129-66-8

10-75 , Guashan South Garden
Gongshou District, Hangzhou City, 310015, P.R.China

Phone	+86-571-8801 0713
Fax	+86-571-8801 0679

zouhongwei@mail.hz.zj.cn

________________________________________________

SYNCHEM OHG (Germany), producer
http://www.buyersguidechem.de/AfirmAus.php?fnumm=31904567&pname=2,4,6-Trinitrobenzoic%20acid&cass=129-66-8
info@synchem.de


http://www.synchem.de/scm.php?suchuni=jg009

The price from SynChem is 800 Euros for 5 grams, Order #jg009 .  Of
the above sources, SynChem is the best bet.
Here is their contact info:

SYNCHEM Laborgemeinschaft OHG
Heinrich-Plett-Str. 40
D-34109 Kassel, Germany

Dr. Jaeger or Dr. Drinkuth
Telefon: +49 (0) 561 8044642
Telefax: +49 (0) 561 8044648
E-Mail: info@synchem.de
________________________________________________


Searching the ChemFinder database indicated that there are currently
no US suppliers of this compound.

http://chemacx.cambridgesoft.com/ChemACX/default.asp?formgroup=basenp_form_group&dbname=chemacx&dataaction=query_string&field_type=TEXT&full_field_name=Substance.CAS&field_value=129-66-8
________________________________________________

The ChemExper database turned up Matrix Switzerland, who can provide
the chemical in bulk or semi-bulk.  Here is their contact information:

MATRIX MARKETING GMBH
Bahnweg Nord 35 CH-9475 Sevelen Switzerland
+41 (0)81 740 58 30
+41 (0)81 740 58 31
info@matrix-marketing.ch
http://www.matrix-marketing.ch

Their website is not very useful, however, and I suspect they are
merely a reseller for other chemical suppliers.
________________________________________________

The ChemIndex database dredged up another source, in China, in
addition to the above:

http://sp.chemindex.com/psearch.cgi?f=detail&pid=214225&rid=0.709837&terms=129-66-8&id=2,4,6-trinitrobenzoic%20acid

Dayang Chemicals Co. Ltd.
33-1-201 Fuyuanxincun Tianmushan Road Xihu District Hangzhou City, China(310012)
Tel:   +86-571-88492613,88492575
Fax:  +86-571-88492614

http://www.chinadayangchem.com

Their website is "under construction," making this company less useful
potential source.
________________________________________________


Given the limited number of suppliers available and the high cost of
both the compound and its transportation, another consideration would
be synthesis on-site.

Trinitrobenzoic acid can be synthesized from less expensive reagents
(essentially oxidation of trinitrotoluene - TNT).  Here is a page
describing the synthesis from sulfuric acid, sodium dichromate,
trinitrotoluene, sodium hydroxide, and water:
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepcontent.asp?print=1&showprint=1&prep=cv1p0543
This is obviously a dangerous process, only to be carried out by
individuals with the proper training handling explosives.

Here is another synthesis description:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/sci/chemistry/OrganicSynthesis/chap25.html


________________________________________________


Also of potential interest, here is the National Institute of
Standards page on this compound, which gives some other names by which
it may be known:
http://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=129-66-8&Units=SI

The NIH National Library of Medicine page for the compound is here:
http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=8518

Here is the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety page:
http://search.ccinfoweb.ccohs.ca/ccohs/jsp/search/search.jsp?QueryText=129-66-8&MaxDocs=500&ResultStart=1&SortSpec=Score%20desc&hTab=3&vTab=0

________________________________________________


I hope this was useful.  Please do not hesitate to request any clarification.

Best,

         -welte-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by someday-ga on 24 Apr 2005 13:02 PDT

Dear Welte-

Thank you for the speedy answer, however, what I am looking for is the
salt form of trinitrobenzoic acid. I think it is called
Trinitrobenzoic acid sodium salt or sodium trinitrobenzoate. Could one
of the mentioned suppliers possibly supply the sodium salt of
trinitrobenzoic?

Thanks-

Someday

---

Clarification of Answer by welte-ga on 24 Apr 2005 15:35 PDT

Hi someday,

None of the chemical databases I previously listed were able to find
either sodium trinitrobenzoate or trinitrobenzoic sodium, or other
variations.  I have contacted SynChem in Germany asking them if they
supply the sodium salt.  It's likely that a company that makes this
compound can provide the sodium salt, but I would like to confirm this
with them.  I will get back to you when I hear from them.

Depending on your planned use for this reagent and the environment in
which you are working, it may be possible to generate the sodium salt
from trinitrobenzoic acid itself.

Please let me know if this is a possibility or if you absolutely need
the sodium salt.  I have also come across some scraps of information
referring to the lead salt - Do you require the sodium salt, or is
some other metal salt sufficient?

        -welte-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by someday-ga on 25 Apr 2005 14:29 PDT

It maybe possible for us to make the sodium salt. What we are after is
a water soluble, non-toxic form of trinitrobenzoic acid. Would a metal
salt fit those needs?

---

Clarification of Answer by welte-ga on 25 Apr 2005 18:39 PDT

Another option is to obtain "wetted" trinitrobenzoic acid.  There are
various forms, the safest being wetted trinitrobenzoic acid with not
less than 30% water (by weight).  Since you plan to ultimately
dissolve the compound in water, this may work for you.

I have not yet heard back from SynChem regarding metal salts of
trinitrobenzoic acid.

Have you received any additional information from the chemist at your organization?

           -welte-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by someday-ga on 25 Apr 2005 22:07 PDT

Thank you for all your help. If you have any thoughts on were to
obtain "wetted" trinitrobenzoic acid, I would appreciate it,
otherwise, thanks again for all the help.

---

Clarification of Answer by welte-ga on 26 Apr 2005 17:48 PDT

Thank you for the high rating!

I at last heard from SynChem.  They supply the acid, the salt, and the
wetted form of the acid.  Here is their price quote, as well as some
additional information on the sodium salt:

___________________________________

We thank you for your enquiry dated April 24, 2005 and are pleased to
quote as follows:

2,4,6-Trinitrobenzoic acid free acid JG009

1 g: 300 EUR + freight & insurance  [error?  should be 300mg  -welte-ga]

1 g: 800 EUR + freight & insurance

Delivery time: prompt, on stock

Payment terms: 20 days net cash

This offer is without obligation.

The CAS# of the sodium salt is 63467-66-3. You can easily transfer the
free acid to the sodium salt.

Kind regards,

Felix Jaeger
[SynChem]

_________________________________________

Best,

       -welte-ga