What two men in the Bible committed the exact same sin?

Clue 1: their names begin with same letter
Clue 2: the sin is not one of morality
Clue 3: the sin is obscure

A correct response will include:
1) the two men's names
2) their sin
3) corresponding verses and translation

---

I was given this question by a trivia guru with the challenge to find
it.  I've found some people with similar sins (Achan & Saul), but not
where it's stated exactly the same, and not with the two names
starting with the same letter.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 25 Apr 2005 15:37 PDT

Also, it might be of help that the person who posed the question has a
disposition toward the KJV.  This is not a certainty, but it might
help to find the exact same wording.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 26 Apr 2005 03:29 PDT

Ahh, I just learned that the criteria is not just "men" ...  but "godly men"

So perhaps a strategy might be to look at a list of biblical people,
cross off the women and the ungodly men, and then identify a few sins
between them.

It was suggested that I simply find another murderer with starting
with the letter "C" to pair with Cain, but this sin doesn't fit the
criteria...  sin is not obscure, sin is one of morality.

I believe it will be something like this...
2 Samuel 24:10 - David sins by counting his soldiers.
Maybe another godly man counted his soldiers too...  starting with a "D"?

We're on the right track.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 26 Apr 2005 09:35 PDT

Another strategy might be to:
1) search for the words: "sin" "sinned" or "wrong" or "wronged"
2) then note the people associated with them
3) eliminate all women and ungodly men
4) read for similarities
5) look for similar first letters in names
6) pay specific attention to obscure, ritual-based sins
7) start with the KJV (I say start because I'm only 90% confident in
that translation to have the wording needed)

sample link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sin&wholewordsonly=yes&version1=9

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 26 Apr 2005 18:13 PDT

Turns out that Uzzah and Uzziah are not the answer...  because there
are others that have committed the same sins...  violating a sacred
area/object.

The only help I can give is that the two men are very godly...  even
heros of the faith.  And the sin is not so obscure, as it is unique. 
Unique in the way that ONLY these two men in scripture are recorded
committing this unique sin.

Also, that both are in the Old Testament.  But not together when the
sin is committed.

My speculation because of other conversation we had that evening is
that one of the characters is Job.  So later I will look for unique
sins of Job and then compare to other "J" characters in scripture.

If it's not a J, my presumption is that it's at least one big
pillar...  Moses, David, Isaiah, Solomon, Abraham, etc.  But my
money's on Job right now.

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Request for Question Clarification by taxmama-ga on 27 Apr 2005 17:21 PDT

Dear xrusos,

Here are sins that are not of morality and are relatively obscure:

1) Lack of faith (in god)

2) Pride or arrogance (excessive trust in themselves vs god's plan)

3) Fear - afraid to do what is right or speak on behalf of god

4) Cursing god
Moses committed the first sin when he threw down the tablets
coming down from Mt. Sinai. God didn't let him into the promised land.

But I can't find another 'M' with a similar lack of faith. 


Here are two people whose names begin with the same letter
who might have committed similar sins.

David - overcame Goliath. Pride? He was proud enough to kill off a
woman's husband (put him in harm's way) so he could have her.
David got to start the Temple, but wasn't permitted to finish it.
Solomon finished it. 

Daniel (as in lion's den) - did he ever lose faith? Or, after surviving, 
did he think it was his own prowess?


Ah, here it is! Tell me if this is right:

Job curses god for his problems.

And Jacob curses god for sending him the wrong wife (the first time).

Is it Jacob and Job - for cursing god?

Best wishes

Your TaxMama-ga

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 27 Apr 2005 17:34 PDT

Thanks for the response.  Although I'm not sure Job ever curses God. 
And even if he did, cursing God is not a unique sin in that more than
2 people are recorded committing this sin.

I've read through Job, the Jacob verses, and Joshua verses.  Still
haven't found a link.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 27 Apr 2005 18:21 PDT

The "Trivia Guru" has confirmed that we are on the right track...

One of the two men is Job.  And the other is NOT Jonah!

So that means the other person definitely 100% starts with a "J".

See the list above for more J's, but my bets on one of the bigger ones...
Joshua, Jacob, Jeremiah, Joel, Judah, etc.

Closing in on the answer...

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Request for Question Clarification by taxmama-ga on 27 Apr 2005 18:43 PDT

Hi Xrusos,

Ask him if the other is Jacob, not Jonah.

You're right - Job is tested and does not curse god

"He questions his Maker as to why he was created and, in a moment of
despair, wishes aloud that he had perished in his mother?s womb."
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

He questions his maker - lack of faith.


Jacob 

2. So Jacob confesses, without realizing it, the weakness of his faith 
http://members.surfbest.net/pages@surfbest.net/bible/genesis/genesis31_22-42_part2.htm

How's this?

Best wishes

TM-ga

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 28 Apr 2005 11:47 PDT

I don't think that's it...  But i'll check.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 28 Apr 2005 11:51 PDT

Here's my latest guess...

Both Job and Jeremiah cursed the day they were born:

Jeremiah 20:14
Cursed be the day when I was born;
Let the day not be blessed when my mother bore me!

Job 3:1-3
Afterward Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.
And Job said,
"Let the day perish on which I was to be born,
And the night which said, 'A boy is conceived.'

A sin because Psalm 139:14
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.

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Clarification of Question by xrusos-ga on 28 Apr 2005 16:55 PDT

That's it.  Thanks for playing.  Job and Jeremiah.

If there are cases of parallel characters fresh in my mind, I'd recall
first the name Tamar. The Old Testament one is a daughter-in-law of
the tribal patriarch Judah, but since she failed to gain children
because her husbands were each time struck down, she disguised herself
to have children by her father-in-law. The New Testament one is King
David's daughter who was sexually molested by her half-brother Amnon.
I guess the parallel is their being both characters in sexual events.

All sin is a violation of morality. The 'trivia guru' might have
intended to rule out a sin involving sexual morality. But it is rather
annoying to find the whole of morality reduced to matters of sexual
conduct. It itrivialises things.

Peter lied/denied he knew Jesus:  Paul, Philips, ...
Adam blamed Eve:  Aaron ...   (but Adam wasn't very godly)
Jacob traded (or stole) Esau's rights as first born:  J ? ...
David, lusted after Bathsheba (was a voyeur):  Daniel, ...
Moses broke the first set of tablets:  M ?
JOb and Jesus both complained to God about their fates
...
have fun here:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/people.htm

Disagree with Amber00-ga. 
For instance God strikes dead Uzzah for touching the ark with his
hand, when the oxen carrying it stumbled. That he was stuck dead,
seems to indicate it was a sin-- however more a protocol violation
then a moral violation.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=2%20Samuel%206:2-7

Perhaps another help might be to:
1) search for the words: "sin" "sinned" or "wrong" or "wronged"
2) then note the people associated with them
3) eliminate all women and ungodly men
4) read for similarities
5) look for similar first letters in names
6) pay specific attention to obscure, ritual-based sins
7) start with the KJV (I say start because I'm only 90% confident in
that translation to have the wording needed)

sample link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=sin&wholewordsonly=yes&version1=9

Incidentally, Uzzah and Uzziah both were guilty of breech of protocol
type sins. Uzzah was struck dead for his, Uziah struck with leporsy.

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/uzzah.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/uzziah.html

I bet thats your answer.

Here's a link with a list (with biblical references) to more than 600 sins.  

Bible Studies: Sin List
http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

Recapping shockandawe-ga's response...

Name: Uzzah
Sin: breech of protocol OR touching that which was set apart as holy
(he touched the ark of the covenant to steady it when the oxen shook
it)
Verse: 2 Samuel 6:6-7
?And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his
hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him
there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.?

Name: Uzziah
Sin: breech of protocol OR touching that which was set apart as holy
(he went in the holy of holies to burn some incense)
Verse: 2 Chronicles 26:14 (KJV)
?And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It
appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but
to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn
incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither
shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.?

---

This is great.  But perhaps a bit of a stretch...  because the wording
is different, and the criteria is of "exact same sin".  I'm not
accepting that as the final answer yet, but I will contact the 'trivia
guru' to see if that fits.

I'm going to leave this open until it's confirmed.  If it does work,
I'll make sure you get the credit.

Otherwise, keep bringing answers!  We're on the right track!

Turns out that Uzzah and Uzziah are not the answer...  because there
are others that have committed the same sins...  violating a sacred
area/object.

The only help I can give is that the two men are very godly...  even
heros of the faith.  And the sin is not so obscure, as it is unique. 
Unique in the way that ONLY these two men in scripture are recorded
committing this unique sin.

Also, that both are in the Old Testament.  But not together when the
sin is committed.

My speculation because of other conversation we had that evening is
that one of the characters is Job.  So later I will look for unique
sins of Job and then compare to other "J" characters in scripture.

If it's not a J, my presumption is that it's at least one big
pillar...  Moses, David, Isaiah, Solomon, Abraham, etc.  But my
money's on Job right now.

One other interesting repeated story I know is that of Abraham and
Isaac dealing with Abimelech separately. First, when Abraham enter's
Abimelech's land, he tells his wife Sarah to say that she is his
sister and not his husband. Then Abraham's son Isaac does the same
thing, asking his wife Rebekah to pretend to be his sister and not his
wife! And to think of it, in both cases, it's always Abimelech! I
wonder if this particular fellow has a fetish for the sisters of his
guests. Genesis Chapters 20 and 26.

For help, here are the "J" names that may sync with Job or Joshua or
Jacob...  Most notable is Jonah...  looking into him next.

?  Jabez
?  Jacob (Israel)
?  Japheth
?  Jehoahaz (King of Israel)
?  Jehoahaz (King of Judah)
?  Jehoash (Joash) (King of Israel)
?  Jehoiachin (King of Judah)
?  Jehoiakim (King of Judah)
?  Jehoram (King of Israel)
?  Jehoram (King of Judah)
?  Jehoshaphat (King of Judah)
?  Jehu (King of Israel)
?  Jeremiah
?  Jeroboam 1 (King of Israel)
?  Jeroboam 2 (King of Israel)
?  Joash (Jehoash) King of Judah
?  Job
?  Joel
?  Jonah
?  Joseph (son of Jacob/Israel)
?  Joshua
?  Josiah (King of Judah)
?  Jotham (King of Judah)
?  Judah (son of Jacob)


Still not certain it's a J, but it's my hunch.

Kind of weak, but...
Job and Jonah both fleed from the Lord's power...

Jonah 1:10
This terrified them and they asked, "What have you done?" (They knew
he was running away from the LORD, because he had already told them
so.)

Job 27:22
It hurls itself against him without mercy
as he flees headlong from its power.

Better...

Both Jonah and Job prayed for death...

Jonah 4:3
"Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for death is
better to me than life."


Job 7:15,16
So that my soul would choose suffocation,
Death rather than my pains.
"I waste away; I will not live forever
Leave me alone, for my days are but a breath.

The "Trivia Guru" has confirmed that we are on the right track...

One of the two men is Job.  And the other is NOT Jonah!

So that means the other person definitely 100% starts with a "J".

See the list above for more J's, but my bets on one of the bigger ones...
Joshua, Jacob, Jeremiah, Joel, Judah, etc.

Closing in on the answer...