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Q: streangth of steal chain ( No Answer,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: streangth of steal chain
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: oshea11-ga
List Price: $4.00
Posted: 25 Apr 2005 22:13 PDT
Expires: 25 May 2005 22:13 PDT
Question ID: 514262
is a steal chain stronger if you hook it from point a to b or if you
double it up in one countinous circal from a to b?

Request for Question Clarification by webadept-ga on 25 Apr 2005 22:21 PDT
Are you looping it through an eyehole or around the hook when you
double it up, or are you hooking it through the chain link on the hook
when you double it up?

webadept-ga

Clarification of Question by oshea11-ga on 25 Apr 2005 22:49 PDT
when you double up the chain it will loop around a pin and conect to
the other end of the chain and it will end up half the length

Clarification of Question by oshea11-ga on 25 Apr 2005 22:58 PDT
the chain will just move freelee around a hook or eyehole on either
object when doubled up and conect back to the other end of the chain
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: streangth of steal chain
From: myoarin-ga on 26 Apr 2005 04:37 PDT
 
IF the chain is just looped around a pin, the full load will be on the
link or two at the pin  (or pins at both objects if you shackle the
ends of the chain together to make a circle).  If the load absolutely
exceed the strength of the chain (that of any link), the chain would
break.
If the chain in this situation could really move freely, sharing the
load on both halves, there would be only half the load on the links
between the two objects.

If you put could put the pin through two links, or shackle two links
to the pins, and assure that the load was always equally distributed
(a whiffletree arrangement: the pins at the ends of a moveable bar
perpendicular to the direction of the load that is attached at its
middle to the the vehicle or whatever is creating the load), then the
load would be shared by each half of the chain  - in effect, two
chains, so this would be stronger.
Subject: Re: streangth of steal chain
From: xcarlx-ga on 26 Apr 2005 11:40 PDT
 
There are a couple of unique aspects to your question.  It will be
easier if you temporarily forget your question and look at question C
here, about Bob the Window Washer.  Once this example makes sense,
your chain question should clear itself up:
http://www.cord.edu/dept/physics/p128/lecture99_13.html

The example on the left represents your version with the chain looped
over a hook (not a single chain link hooked).  The example on the
right is the same as your single-strand of chain--you could also
connect the rope directly to an overhanging structure with no pulley
and have no effect (ignoring the weight of the rope).

Attaching the rope/chain to a fixed object simulates an identical
force in the opposite direction.  In order to match the force of a
weight hanging from a single strand from a fixed point (roof or hook),
you would have to add another weight of equal amount to the other end
of the rope/chain hung over a pulley.  By adding the pulley and
looping the chain through, you are now holding twice as much weight
from the same chain.

This is one of those things that never sound right at first, but the
logic works itself out.  You can also see the Levi's question on the
same page above.

This is also similar to the question of which is worse, your car
crashing into an identical car coming at you at the same speed, or
crashing into a fixed wall.  For your individual car it is the same,
although the second car might have something to say about it.  But
translated to the chain scenario, you end up with twice as much
hanging capacity, just as the car scenario ends up with twice as much
car crushing done.


In your question, there are two differences worth noting:

1. It sounds like you might have two of the pulley-like arrangements
back-to-back (or rather top-to-bottom).  This is fine, just examine
one end at a time.

2. In theory the looped rope over the pulley (or in your case a looped
chain over a hook) would double the weight capacity.  But it doesn't
work 100% for a rope because bending the rope weakens it by placing
more stress on the outer part of the curve.  A pulley should be as
large as possible to minimize this.  With a chain looped over a hook,
you will end up with one or two loops hanging over the hook with a
good bending force on them.  Despite the pulley logic, flexibility
issues migh break your chain at a lower force than either hanging
method would calculate.  So don't actually do this!
Subject: Re: streangth of steal chain
From: myoarin-ga on 26 Apr 2005 14:17 PDT
 
xcarlx-ga,
Thank you for enlightening me.  Yes, if the chain went around a
pulley, that would halfen (?) the load.  I was/am worried that with
the chain just looped around a pin, all the load would still be on
just one link.

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