If I go to search.msn.com and search for Wire Management, my page
http://cableorganizer.com/wire-management turns out to be #83 on the
list. Where did I go wrong?  Why is my page so poorly ranked?  If I
search for "effective wire management" it is #1.

Please do not give ANY general advice when answering this question. 
In other words, don't say, MSN (Inktomi) prefers between 400 and 700
words.  If my page has 500 words then that kind of information is not
useful.

I need to know specifically, what is wrong with my page
http://cableorganizer.com/wire-management that should be changed to
improve my page ranking on MSN. I suspect that the page is being
penalized for some reason (possibly too many "ALT" statements).

I will try to make changes per your suggestions and we should have the
new results in 48 hours.

---

Clarification of Question by holstein13-ga on 12 Aug 2002 10:56 PDT

Since making tar_heel's changes below, I moved from 89 to 45.  I've
got to do better.

holstein13-ga 

You score #1 on MSN for "Effective WIre Management" because your HTML
TITLE tag is "Effective Wire Management using Cable Organizers,
Braided Sleeving". MSN hugely overweights an exact text match in the
title when ranking pages.

That's obvious (and not part of my question).  Of course, "wire
management" is an exact match as well.  There is something wrong with
my page that is preventing a good result for "wire management."

I did a little research using some terms for your site and here is
what I found.

If you do a search under braided sleeving, your site is 13th
If you do a search under cable organizer, your site is listed 16th
(/products)
If you do a search under Split loom corrugated tubing, your site is
listed 2nd (/wire-management)

Possibly changing the description tag to say "Wire management with
Split loom corrugated tubing...." may help as it appears MSN heavily
weights the title tag as well as the description tag, it may help.

Just an idea

If Braided Sleeving does well at the end of the title, why would
moving "Wire Management" forward in prominance help?  My research has
shown just the opposite.  MSN (Inktomi) weighs keywords more favorably
if they are not the first words in the title.  Interesting, Huh? 
Betcha never knew that?

The title is clearly not the problem as proved by the title results in
#1 to #89.

Agreed re: the title tag. Braided sleeving is being pulled from the
text on your page, not from the title tag.  If you do a search under
"Wire Management using", your site is #1.  It is pulling that from the
text on your page, nowhere else.  I mentioned the description tag. not
the title tag.  Your description tag reads "Split loom corrugated
tubing is ideal for wrapping up your cables and organizing them into a
neat package.  They make wire management easy." and your site is #2
under split look corrugated tubing. That is why I said move Wire
management to the front of the description tag.

You have the term "wire management" only three times on the page,
while braided sleeving is on there 4 times, cable organizer 5 times. 
By combining a change in your description tag and possibly fitting
wire management into your text a couple more times, it may help.

Search Engine Optimization is far from a perfect science.  Trial and
error and diligence are the keys.

THV

Popularity for a three-word keyword string does not necessarily mean
that you will have similar popularity for a two-word substring - there
may be a lot more sites, and a lot more popular sites, using that two
word string. According to Overture's search suggestion tool, there
were 622 searches for "wire managment" in July, and none for
"effective wire management". Many SEO's look at that data when
optimizing a site, and would thus focus on the two-word string. See:
http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/

Also, if you aren't a paying customer of LookSmart, Overture, or
Inktomi, your site will be ranked below those paying customers. On
MSN:

Featured Sites: MSN Advertisers
Sponsored Sites: Overture
Web Directory Sites: LookSmart

My own website, on a pure Inktomi search, ranks #4. On MSN, it ranks
#81. Why? Because I don't buy advertising for that relatively popular
pair of keywords. For a related three-word string, I rank at #5 in
pure Inktomi, and #8 on MSN - because only a few advertisers pay for
that three word string.

I never thought about misspelling management like that (managment) for
the keyword.  Thanks for the suggestion.  As for your theory that paid
sites have a better rank, I would put that in the theory bin for now. 
It is definitely not a fact.  First of all, this is a paid listing
through Inktomi, Secondly, MSN gets some listings from Direct hit
which was purchased by "Ineedhits.com" and this is a paid listing on
ineedhits.com  My own non-scientific research with "HIPAA Checklist"
and HIPPA Regulations with no advertising whatsoever would certainly
cast a doubt on your theory.

No, the real problem is something else that no one has identified yet.
 I really feel in my gut that I am being penalized for something on
the page.  I just don't know what it is yet.  I have made the changes
to the description and body as suggested by tar_heel and we'll see how
that works.

Greetings!  Just chiming in to say I feel all the above is excellent
advice, especially the incorrect spellings.  In keyword strings, it is
always wise to include misspellings because of accidental keystrokes
by searchers.

Also, having the singular phrase "wire management" in your page text
near the top will help in ranking - some say the top right is a
heavily indexed position for spiders.  Were I you, I would take the
advice of Tar Heel, especially the "Possibly changing the description
tag to say "Wire management with Split loom corrugated tubing...." may
help as it appears MSN heavily weights the title tag as well as the
description tag..."

Page title, page description and keywords should begin with "wire
management" followed by "wire managment" and salt the text on the page
with your key words and phrases for higher optimization.

Although typos can generate traffic, "managment" was my typo, not a
suggestion. You can test for some typos through the Overture tool, but
they correct common typos automatically.

As for advertisers ranking higher on MSN, there is nothing theoretical
about it. Again, they are presented in the following order:

Featured Sites: MSN Advertisers 
Sponsored Sites: Overture 
Web Directory Sites: LookSmart

Inktomi results come last. Compare your rankings on a pure Inktomi
search to MSN.

There's no "magic bullet" - if there were, *everybody* would be in the
top ten.

OK, I agree with the order but:

Featured Sites: MSN Advertisers (There are none for "Wire Management")
Sponsored Sites: Overture  (There seam to be none listed)
Web Directory Sites: LookSmart (displays 4 sites)

I realize I can't be #1 without being in Looksmart (which I am in
actually, but not with the right keywords, apparently)

But I could be #5 with the right page ranking.  I'm a long way away. 
Something is wrong other than paid advertisers being in front of me.

What I really don't understand is how this site
http://www.cablejoe.com/PolygonProducts.html is #6 on the search
result for wire management.  They don't have the keyword in the title,
there are no keywords, no alt tags, and no description.  The phrase
"wire management" is listed exactly one time in the body of the page. 
It makes no sense whatsoever.  Maybe link popularity is to blame here
but I can't imagine anyone linking to that page.

Inktomi seems to occasionally fall in love with a non-optimized,
text-only, first generation webpage, for no apparent reason. Oh, I'm
sure their programmers could explain it, but they're not talking. ;-)

Cable Joe 'may' have taken out their keywords to prevent people
stealing them as soon as they are ranked, with a revisit meta tag.
lot-ga