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Q: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup ( No Answer,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
Category: Science
Asked by: ryanjblack-ga
List Price: $8.00
Posted: 03 Jun 2005 11:47 PDT
Expires: 04 Jun 2005 23:15 PDT
Question ID: 529016
Does pre-heating a teacup before pouring (very hot) tea into the cup
make a difference to the temperature of the tea once it's inside the
cup?  If so, how much of a difference is it?

I would have tackled this question in the following manner.  First, assumptions:
Tea Water: Boiled to 95 degrees celsius
Room temperature: 22 degrees celsius
Teacup A: Filled to the top with some of the Tea Water for 30 seconds,
after which it is poured out (leaving the cup "hot").
Teacup B: Identical cup, but is at room temperature.

Then, my methodology:
1. Fill Teacup A and Teacup B with the Tea Water
2. Place two thermometers of equal properties, responsiveness, and
initial temperature into the cups and monitor their temperatures for a
period of time.
3. Repeat if necessary to verify results.

I am very interested in the methodology that you choose to answer this
question and the results you get.  Thank you very much to anyone who
takes the time to answer.

Clarification of Question by ryanjblack-ga on 03 Jun 2005 11:52 PDT
Just to be clear, I am interested in:
- the difference in initial temperature
- the difference in temperature after a short period of time (say 1-5 minutes)
- the difference in temperature after a long period of time (say 15-30 minutes)
- whatever other data you can come up with!
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
From: mikewa-ga on 03 Jun 2005 12:47 PDT
 
The temperature of the unheated cup will raised by the addition of hot
tea. As a result the tea will decease in temperature since some of the
energy in the tea has been transferred to the cup. The exact decrease
depends on the weight of the cup and tea, the initial temperature of
both and the specific heat of both. The result will also depend on how
long it takes for the cup to equilibrate: if you pour out the hot
water too soon, this will affect the final temperature.
Subject: Re: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
From: ryanjblack-ga on 03 Jun 2005 13:09 PDT
 
Thanks for the comment, mikewa-ga, but I'd be interested in knowing
how this plays out in the real world.  I understand that heat
transfers from the water to the cup and (if the cup is hot enough, I
suppose) from the cup to the water, and that energy is expended in the
process.  But I'm interested in some numbers, I suppose---some
real-life tea examples!
Subject: Re: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
From: myoarin-ga on 03 Jun 2005 19:30 PDT
 
Hi,
I think your method sounds good, try it.  You just need a third cup of
tea to drink while you watch the thermometers.
As Mikewa-ga points out, the results are dependent on the weight and
material of the cups, and their volume, so any experiment will be
unique.
Of course, you don't have to waste tea in the cups.
Subject: Re: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
From: ballistic-ga on 04 Jun 2005 01:05 PDT
 
Quantities and Conditions: 
I measured a typical teacup from my cupboard and found
that it massed just over 100 gm, and held 200 ml of water. 
Neglecting the density change of water, consider that to 
be 200 gm of hot or cold water. I also neglected the difference
between water and tea. 

-----------------------------------------------
Answer #1: 
First, we solve by engineering calculation: 
Water has a specific heat of 1 Cal/gm*K (by definition)
A typical ceramic material (silicon dioxide)
has a specific heat of (45 J/mol-K) or 0.168 Cal/gm*C.

Many consider an ideal tea brewing temperature to be 85-90C. 
Let's choose 90 C. And suppose the teacup starts at room temperature
of 25 C. 

If 200 gm of water at 90 C is added to 100 gm of ceramic at 25 C, 
the combination is in equilibrium when the two temperatures become equal. 
Together they have a heat content (relative to 0 C) of ...

100gm * 25C * 0.168 cal/gm*C + 200gm * 90C * 1.0 cal/gm*C = 18420 cal

at the equilibrium temperature, the above equation becomes

100gm * T * 0.168 cal/gm*C + 200gm * T * 1.0 cal/gm*C = 18420 cal

Solving for T gives 84 C. 

Take 84 C to the temperature of the pre-heated teacup. 
Grinding through the equations once more, gives 

Before mixing: 
100gm * 84C * 0.168 cal/gm*C + 200gm * 90C * 1.0 cal/gm*C = 19410 cal
After equilibrating: 
100gm * T * 0.168 cal/gm*C + 200gm * T * 1.0 cal/gm*C = 18420 cal
And finally: 
T = 89.5 C

So the answer is:
Preheating the teacup increases the equilibrium tea temperature 
from 84 C to 89.5 C

[ Both are too hot for my palate, so then I would cool 
it down to a reasonable drinking temperature of say 60 C ]

--------------------
Answer #2: 

Using the same quantities and temperatures as in the above example, 
I measured the actual temperature after five minutes, and found 79 C. 
The missing 6 C is probably due to convective cooling and evaporation
from the surface. I didn't think to measure the mass lost due to evaporation, 
but that would have verified the evaporative heat loss. 

Then, dumping the 79 C water, and pouring in another 200 ml of 90 C water, 
and again waiting five minutes, I measured a temperature of 83 C. 

In the experimental case, the preheated cup gave 83 C 
compared to the cool cup at 79 C. 

The slightly smaller temperature difference seen experimentally is probably
due to the higher evaporation rate at higher temperatures. The hotter the 
tea, the faster it will cool by evaporation, so the preheated cup cooled 
more than the cool cup. 

[And once again, all the cups are too hot for my taste, so I would wait 
for them to cool further before drinking them]

I believe that answers your question, and also gives you the tools
to calculate the equilibrium temperatures for other size teacups 
and brewing temperatures should you feel the need.
Subject: Re: Tea temperature difference between preheated and room temperature cup
From: ryanjblack-ga on 04 Jun 2005 23:15 PDT
 
Wow, thank you to everyone for all the work!  One of you should have
taken it up for the $8.00, but I thank you for the work that you did
on this.  Ballistic-ga, all your theoretical and practical advice
really helped me out.

I am cancelling the question, but I thank you all!  I have learned a
lot in this thread!

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