Our son is currently attending an early learning center for 4 year
olds and would normally be ready to attend school next year.
Academically he is very bright but his teacher has recommended that he
not go on to prep next year but instead attend a special transition
year before doing so based on the fact that although he was assessed
very intelligent academically, emotionally they do not think he is
ready. We are not sure weather we agree with the recommendation or
not. Our worry is that he is already way ahead academically so if he
stays behind an extra year we think he may start to really hate school
due to boredom (even if they think they can provide a special
extension program for the remaining school years). We are trying to
find information on weather keeping back very bright kids for social
development is a positive or negative and if there are any case
studies with the effect of this on similar children.
 
His Background:

My son didn?t begin speaking until he was nearly 2 years old. When he
was about 18 months old he began to recognize numbers on a clock face
and could point them out accurately out when asked. He seemed to be
taking particular notice of any symbols, especially numbers and
letters. By the time he was 2 he started counting and had memorized
the all the letters of the alphabet. By the time has was 2 ½ he was
counting letter box numbers (i.e. by 2?s) and knew his phonetic
alphabet. He was fascinated by letters and number and they were his
own world ? he seemed to own them. He would play with letter and
numbers all day if he could. He soon started writing them with chalk
and made number and letter patterns.

He liked order and expected it. When he didn?t get it we got tantrums.
If we walked down a street he had to count the letterboxes numbers. If
a letter box was missing or the number sequence changed he got very
upset. We had him checked for Asperger's Syndrome and/or some mild
form autism but we were assured he was normal just a little different.

At 3 his love for letter and numbers continued. We decided his focus
was a little narrow and it would be a good idea to get him a little
more rounded some we sent him along to an early learning center for 3
year olds. He loved it and he got to do other things beside letters
and numbers. He was happy and we were happy to see him enjoying other
things too (as well as letter and numbers).

As he got older his strict need for order sort of went away. He still
liked order but it was not the end of the world if he did not get it -
at least most of the time.

By the time he was 3 he started reading words and shortly sentences
and then children?s books. He has also started writing words and now
is writing basic sentences. He is now doing basic addition,
subtraction, multiplication and simple division.

In preparation for the next year the school accessed all children
recently. The results were:

Currently at the age of 5 he is reading at the level of a 9 year old
and doing maths at the level of about the same. In other areas like
vocabulary and memory he was also assessed highly.

---

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 13 Jun 2005 16:38 PDT

whatshisname,

Please look at the following resource and tell me if this is helpful. 

Did You Hold Back Your Child?
http://www.familyeducation.com/whatworks/item/nogroup-index/0,3002,1-22912,00.html
..."Considering having your child repeat a school year? Find out how
other parents made the decision, and share your experiences.

Number of stories:

No, and I Wish I Had - 19
No, and I'm Glad I Didn't - 31
Yes, and I Regret That Decision - 22
Yes, and I'm Glad I Did - 134


Also, although used in a different context, this report is relevant:

A NATION DECEIVED - How Schools Holds Back America's Brightest Children
http://www.nationdeceived.org/NDv1.pdf

Tell me if I'm on the right track...


~~Cynthia

---

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 13 Jun 2005 16:44 PDT

I have one more question, possibly asking the obvious...

Most of the results that my search came up with were indicitive of
young "gifted" children SKIPPING a grade. It is being suggested to you
that your child be held back, again. They stste this is so he can
becoem more socialized. That seems hokey to me, after all, he has been
around other kids for 2 years now. Have you asked about this? It seems
strange to me. I remember in school, the "smart kids" always seemed a
bit different, a bit less social, and a bit more studious.  What's
wrong with that?

~~Cynthia

---

Clarification of Question by whatshisname-ga on 13 Jun 2005 19:19 PDT

Yes they suggest we hold our son back (not again however, this year is
the first time they have suggested we hold our son back). He did 3
year old early learning last year and 4 year old (which is
kindagarden) this year.

Sorry, I missed you clarifcation until just now. I was checking
comments at the bottom.

Yes I think you link to "What works" is on the righ track as there are
a few (not many) example of smart kids held back in the results.

I understand your wish that your son take advantage of his full
academic potential. However, I would recommend that you think about
the implications of sending your son to school against his teacher's
recommendation. Emotional maturity can develop naturally over time and
does not affect your child's ability to grow intellectually (unless he
has attention problems). However, you must understand that in order to
develop relationships with other children your child must be on the
same page, so to speak, as his peers. So if your child is not as
emotionally developed as his classmates, although he may meet or
surpass them in intelligence, he will be lacking the foundation to
develop neccesary friendships. If your son's teacher is qualified,
then it might be a good idea to follow the teacher's advise. And if
you are worried your child will not be challenged intellectually,
there are many enrichment courses and independent study solutions out
there for him.

Thanks for your comment however our concern is not about taking full
advantage of his academic potential. That is not what it is about at
all. He actually loves academic work. We do not have anything to do
with that fact. He chooses to do the things he does and if he can't be
stimulated academically at school we are worried that will lead to
trouble due to inadequate stimulation. I would be very happy if he
wanted to play spider man or and join in with the other kids - but he
is not interested ? he may never be. He may always be at any age a
little eccentric and not on the same page as that seems to be his
personality. He is generally a well behaved boy and is very active. He
can concentrate for hours on things he is interested in.

I am sure his teacher has his best interested in mind (and could well
be making the best possible recommendation) but the pendulum swings
and usually swings too far. Theories come and go and what we believe
to be correct is later discovered to be incorrect.

I would prefer to base our decision on facts and evidence that I can
interpret. That is why I am looking for results. If anyone can give me
some evidence either way I would be very appreciative.

Am I understanding this:  the teacher wants to keep him in PRE-K,
instead of moving up to Kindergarten?  Oh, boy... Kindergarten is
mostly for socialization, anyway, so if I've got this correct, I don't
even understand why there's a question.  Maybe I missed something.

By the way, I'm 30, I teach high school English to students with
reading difficulties, and my own 5 year old (almost 6) just finished
kindergarted reading at a 4th grade level, about the same as your son;
he must have just missed the cut-off to be in a 4-year old learning
center.  Are they a private buisness, looking to maintain their
revenue, hmmmmm...

Why don't you take him by the elementary school and let the principal
meet him?  Maybe get his or her opinion.  I say, go for it!

Of course, I understand this may not be the "facts and evidence"
you're looking for.  Good luck, either way.  You sound like great
parents to me!

Thanks for your comments and support.  Official school (prep class) is
next year for our son if we choose that option or the transition class
as recommended and then official school (prep class) after that.

In our area we have:
3 year old early learning
4 year old early learning (same as Kindergarten - but more days)
Prep (Start of school) 5 year olds
Grade 1 - 6 year olds
Grade 2 - 7 year olds
...etc

3 and 4 year old early learning is private (and optional).

Certainly I don?t believe the teachers are looking at it from a
revenue point of view. I am sure they have set criteria. The way the
classes are structured by the school is a different story however.
There are two 4 year old classes. Next year they will have a full
transition class taken from kids in each of the two 4 year old
classes. So it is not uncommon, as we found out after the fact, to be
recommended the transition class (it seems about 40% or more are
recommended).

If we don?t like the recommendation after getting more facts and other
opinions we will certainly consider elsewhere.

Moving a kid up a year can have nasty side effects.

Being the smartass with the body of a wimp is not much fun.

Neither is it enjoyable being bored having finished the term's work
books in a week.

Personally I was precocious, and never enjoyed my education until I
was /older/ than my peer group. By then I had long learnt how to work
on my own.

In this case I suggest that you trust your gut instincts, if the
teacher who advised you to keep him back feels trustworthy, and your
son likes her, then it will do no harm.

Chances are she'll have him (with a few others) in a corner doing
reproductions of Dali and Magritte.

http://www.mrbauld.com/larkpms2.html

Hey Whatshisname!

This question is rather similar and the answer and comments may be
very interesting to you:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=528280

Personally, I think you should go ahead  - let him go ahead - and
concentrate on bridging the social age gap problem.  I expect he would
have just as much a problem being stuck with his age group,
considering his intellectual advancement.

I hope after the weekend that you will get some more comments and/or
an answer directed to your situation.  The links in the answer to the
above question do also discuss preschoolers.

Good luck,  Myoarin

Again thanks for the comments so far. 

The recommendation is that he should effectively stay back 1 year
rather than advance.

I did read the skip a grade thread before posting. 

On the one hand staying back 1 year may have no benefit socially; just
make the academic gap larger and increase the risk of disinterest and
boredom. On the other hand however it could work out better for him
socially which would obviously help his self esteem and feelings of
belonging and willingness to participate.

It might be wise for you to do a little research
- check whether there are other precocious kids in the class
- check out your son's friends, does he have many ? Are they smart ?

Also check out how the school handles such 'problems' in higher classes.

I went to a UK Waldorf (Steiner) school, and in my year there were
three of us that were streets ahead of the rest. That seemed to happen
in most years.
Although it was directly against the school's philosophy, they had to
teach us separately.
It is quite possible that your son's school is set up for this sort of problem.

Another thing that the school believed, is that a child will learn
astonishingly fast from 0 to 7, but might as well be in a deep freeze
from 8 to 14, at which point the turbo charger kicks in again.
I don't know if this is true, but most of their beliefs had some grounding.

The real clincher is to ask your son what he wants.

As a person who was a smart kid, at the head of her class (and often a
grade ahead), I say don't hold your child back! The implications of
holding a child back academically are rarely considered, but are far
reaching. The child is likely to become bored, loose interest in
learning in general (not to mention public schools), resent the kids
that hold them back, get frustrated, and fall into trouble.

We are talking kindergarten here (or it's equivalent). What can
possibly be the harm? The best way for your child to learn how to
socialize is to...socialize! In my opinion, anyway.

Kriswrite

Again thanks for the comments.

Our son in not precocious in any way. More like the opposite of. If
you didn't see him read, write or work with numbers you would probably
never spot him as bright. He is a little immature for his age and
doesn't always understand what is going on (in a way he is a bit like
an absent minded professor). He is interested in different things to
other kids so he doesn't have as much in common with other kids
(except running around) and does not really have friends. He is a
friendly child and wants to have friends, other kids like him but just
don't get him  - he wants to playing counting games or letter games
etc - he gets frustrated that they don't want to at times.

All of the kids in his class are nice and none are precocious as far
as I can tell. He would be least likely to mix with precocious kids if
there were any as they would be way ahead of him socially.

If I asked him about next year he would have no idea. Sure he would
answer (like yes dad I will be 6 years old) but he wouldn't understand
why or what I was asking.

He is in KINDERGARDEN now (was in 3 year old last year) and would
normally start school next year. They are recommending he stay in
KINDERGARDEN (in a special transition class) for one more year (will
make a total of 3 for him) before starting school.

Again socially I probably tend to agree with the recommendation but
academically I do not. Socially he may catch up (???) and academically
he may come back a little compared to other kids (??? - He may seem
brighter academically than he really is because he has such a big
focus in that area).

Hi Whatshisname,
Just read your latest comment and also Cynthia's clarification.
I agree with Cynthia.  I could imagine that the people recommending
that your son stay in prep have an unconscious (no accusation)
emphasis at seeing the social development of kids.  That is their
business, and in most cases they aren't looking at a five year-old
that is reading and doing math at the level of most nine year-olds.
He is intellectually way ahead.

I would hope that you are in an area where you can talk to
professionals with experience with intellectually advanced kids, or
take the effort to find such.
Perhaps someone here can recommend a way to do so.

As I suggested before, sooner or later he is going to be faced with
social situation (don't want to call it a problem).  He is a friendly
kid, well behaved, wants to have friends (your comments), but doesn't
have much in common with them  - understandably.  He won't next year
either, and maybe for a few years to come.  But/So I wouldn't stifle
his intellectual development with that as a goal.

I hope you can talk to someone who really has the experience to advise you.
Myoarin

Myoarin thanks, Yes we will be speaking to people over the next few weeks. 

I thought getting some results / statistics from Answers would be a
good idea as well.

I am taking a contrarian view on this.  Specifically, nobody who does
not know your child can tell you what to do about this and no research
you read will help you much.  Even people who do know your child
cannot say for sure and nobody knows him as well as you.  Your guess,
and it will be an educated guess, is most likely to yield a helpful
result - parental bias or not.  You can determine the generalities
but, when it comes down to it, you are deciding for an individual and
group statistics, even trends, may or may not apply to that individual
who is your child.  Basically, you make the best decision you can with
what you know and you pretend it's perfectly normal.

I have 3 kids, one of which I had repeat first grade albeit in a
different school.  Conveniently, we were moving at the time so it
helped mask the irregularity.  All 3 are extremely bright.  It's just
that THAT one was a little on the young side for the grade and it
seemed to me that another year to mature a bit might help her be more
comfortable in general and more ready socially.  I thought we started
her just a bit too soon.  It has worked out very well for us but I
have some food for thought:

1.  Be careful not to make an issue of it.  Kids are very aware of
whether they are different than their peers and we had lots of
questions from our daughter even though we tried to portray it as
perfectly normal.  All is well but they notice everything.

2.  I've also seen classmates of my children who clearly were less
mature than their peers and they suffered for it.  They can be
ostracised by their peers and some were constantly "in trouble" for
what came down to short attention spans and a lesser ability to
interact with their classmates.  They can begin to identify themselves
as "bad" or as misfits.  It is misery for a child to be ostracised due
to innapropriate behavior.

Personally, I think so called advanced academics is overrated.  I had
my oldest son multiplying and dividing fractions in Kindergarten
before I became concerned that I would make a freak out of him and I
stopped.  What good is it to get a 12 year old into medical school
really ?  All you'll get is a 12 year old intern who is more
comfortable with books than people and, when he is old enough to be
interested in girls, can't find one he can talk to.  Why do that to
him ?  I'm also convinced that it isn't just my child who can do that.
 I'm convinced most any child can be taught advanced academics.  Just
look at how the home schooled kids who get more personal attention
score higher overall than the rest.  Some of it's nature but not
enough to counteract nurture for most.  Anyway, for me, I want my kids
to have happy, productive lives.  To have that, there has to be
balance.  I am solidly on the side of sacrificing occasional
deviations from the academics means if necessary in favor of having a
more well rounded, socially developed child.  What you will find is
that a child can continue to be challenged academically WHILE
remaining with their social peer group for the most part.  He can
attend the quantum physics class at the nearby college if necessary
but he can still stay with his peer group most of the day.  You can
have it both ways.  Even if he's a whiz at some things, he's going to
be just like most of the other kids his age in many others.  Some,
including I, would argue that he will be more like his peers in the
ways that will affect the quality of his life more significantly.

Albert Einstein once said that we should not make intellect our god. 
It has strong muscles but no personality.  I think he had a good
point.  Good luck to you.

alex101-ga,

Thanks for all of your points.

We are working on the theory that in order to make an educated
decision we need to be educated. We are trying to get a little more
knowledgeable in the area in question. We know our son, but have found
it helpful to find out about other peoples experiences. We know we
can?t relate anyone else?s situation directly to ours. We have however
found a few specks of gold hidden in all the information from here and
from there (thanks to all). Also reading makes us question things we
may not have considered. By the end of our research hopefully we will
have enough for the subconscious mind to brew on and hopefully enough
for us to reach an intuitive gut instinct decision.

I appreciate your comments and for telling me about your personal
experience with your children.


PS. Your point about advanced education of kids is interesting. I
personally think it is part ability, part practice and a big part
interest. We have never done much with our son other than facilitating
his interests. We rarely teach him. I think a big part of why our son
can do these amazing things for his age is because he teaches himself.
By doing things over and over he gets good at it - he loves it, he
can?t get enough. He did learn pretty quickly from the start but never
the less the advancement he shows has probably just as much to do with
practice and interest as ability.

Whatshisname,
While I can see many have already commented on your question, I think
I'd like to add an idea.  My son is also gifted and already has social
problems because it is hard for him to relate to children at his age
but not his intellectual level.  We are seriously considering a gifted
school.  This avenue looks attractive to me because he will be with
kids his own age and in the same situation.  Also the instructors
should also be trained and sensitive to your special child's specific
needs.  This way, your child might get both the education befitting
his talents and a healthy social environment.  Think about it.... and
good luck.
Lovehistory

Thank you for your comments. We will also consider that option.

Hi, I just graduated from high school and I knew a boy who was in a
situation similar to your son's.  He is very smart but was held back
(I think for first grade).  I would venture to say that it probably
did not help him any.  He was still incredibly immature, so much so
that it was really shocking to learn that he was going to be 20 by the
time he graduated (he was born late in the academic year, I guess, so
started school a little late in addition to being held back).  For me
personally, I would have gotten along better with him if he'd actually
been younger than his peer group (because then at least he would have
had an excuse).

I don't really know how much this helps you, but I just don't
understand how holding a kid back is a magical solvent for the child's
emotional immaturity.  A lot of smart kids go through tough times
without friends, etc., but being ahead of the rest of the group in
terms of age is just going to cause kids to question him more.

Also, if he's well-behaved, he'll do just fine at school.  This other
boy was mainly held back, I understand, for being a major handful.  In
fact, teachers will probably love your son if he is truly well-behaved
(because well-behaved boys are pretty rare in early elementary school
- there's a reason a huge number of boys are on Ritalin).

I'm sure there are some circumstances where holding a kid back for
emotional reasons would make sense and would help the situation.  But,
above and beyond all of my previous comments, I don't really
understand how "emotionally mature" a four year old is expected to be.
 I don't see how you could tell about emotional maturity until the
kid's at least six or so.  I'm no expert on this matter, though.

As one of those "smart kids" who is now about to turn 20, I have a
small comment.  I think that at this point in his life, the one year
they suggest holding your son back will not make or break his
emotional well-being.  Furthermore, I believe that he will be old
enough to make his own choice sooner than you might think, and my
largest piece of advice to you is to accept his choice when he makes
it - in either direction.

I was very much an early learner.  My grandmother taught me to read
when I was still two years old, and continued with an "after-school
tutoring" level of supplementary education once I entered formal
schooling.  I progressed rapidly, skipping several grades until I
found myself eight years old and about to enter middle school.  At
that point, the social aspect had caught up with me, and I made the
conscious decision to go back and "relive" from the third grade
(making me the youngest in my class year, but not by very much).  That
third grade year - the first back with my own age group - was my
favorite year up until high school.  I have never regretted my
decision to go back, nor was I tempted by programs allowing me to
"graduate early" or complete significant college coursework during
high school.  I graduated as valedictorian and am now pursuing an
engineering degree with honors at an excellent university.

That said, my younger sister is planning to accelerate her high school
curriculum in order to get to college as quickly as possible.  To each
her own - which is why I suggest allowing your son to make his own
decision when the time comes and he is able.

As far as accelerated curriculum to keep him occupied while in a
school environment below his academic level..  They tried that with
me.  It helped, but it didn't really work.  I remember sitting in a
Kindergarten classroom staring at the giant letter 'A' I was supposed
to be tracing and just waiting to get home so I could open a real
book.  I remember near the end of class, when "as a group", we read
the traditional, short "Fat cat sat on a mat" story.  I sat down, read
the couple of sentences, then waited in boredom while the rest of the
class struggled through it.

My personal suggestion, based on nothing but my own experiences as a
"gifted child" would be to take advantage of the opportunity to teach
him as much as you can, as early as you can.  If that later turns out
to be his goal in life, then you have given him a massive headstart
toward achieving it.  If he decides under his own power to backtrack
and enjoy the social aspects, he will have the opportunity to do so
later in life, after he has reached an age to make his own decision -
and he will have the solid foundation of his early education to push
him onward.

Above all, watch the effect your decisions will have on your son.  If
he is happy with the decision, great!  If not, then it is never too
late to reconsider and alter your course.

** Note: If you do choose to hold him back for social reasons, you
might want to consider the possibility of an extracurricular
"tutoring" situation - whether home-schooled or through a special
service - to continue to challenge him academically.  It's hard to
come home from school only to do more schoolwork, but if you make it
"The Way Things Are", it's quite doable, especially early in life when
there are few social activities after school.