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Q: philosopher socrates "what you imagine in your mind not as perfect on picture"? ( Answered,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: philosopher socrates "what you imagine in your mind not as perfect on picture"?
Category: Reference, Education and News > Education
Asked by: tee976-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 13 Aug 2002 22:48 PDT
Expires: 12 Sep 2002 22:48 PDT
Question ID: 54369
What psychological and sociological presuppositions are there behind
Socrates simile, "the soul is like the city"? How successful is that
simile in you view?
Answer  
Subject: Re: philosopher socrates "what you imagine in your mind not as perfect on pictur
Answered By: samrolken-ga on 13 Aug 2002 23:14 PDT
 
Tee976,

First, I'd like to point out that it wasn't Socrates who said this,
but from what I can find, it was Plato. It was the underlying simile
in his book "The Republic". In this book, Plato discusses living
justly. He first describes a Just City, and its three parts. He then
portrays those parts onto the human soul.

The sociological presuppositions made by Plato are obviously based
upon the structure of society in Plato's time. In the city he
describes, the most educated people are the ones in charge of things.
That isn't necessarily true today. (Not that I'm making any sort of
political statement. ;) Society is much different today than it was
then.

The psychological presuppositions Plato made in his book involves
peoples' rational side ruling over the rest of their soul, must as the
wise men ruled the city Plato describes. Each part of the soul does
its job, and that the just soul is happier than the unjust because the
just soul isn't as chaotic.

You can find more information here:

Sparknotes: The Republic
[http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/republic/summary.html]

Growing Souls by Jim Eller, Rev.
A Sermon from All Souls Unitarian Universalist Church of Kansas City
[http://www.allsoulskc.org/sermons/010520.html]

Or, you could read "The Republic".

To answer the final part of your question, "How successful is that
simile in you view?", I'd like to say that it isn't successful today.
Today, since our "cities" are governed differently and society isn't
the same, Plato's linking of society and the mind isn't nearly as
accurate. Besides, it's confusing. But that's "my view".

--
Sam Kennedy

Search Strategy:

Google Search for: "city soul plato"
Google Search for: "plato republic"
Comments  
Subject: Re: philosopher socrates "what you imagine in your mind not as perfect on picture"?
From: secret901-ga on 13 Aug 2002 23:41 PDT
 
Samrolken:
Socrates never wrote anything.  Most of the sayings attributed to him
come from Plato's book.  In Plato's Republic, it was Socrates who
claimed that the soul is like a city.
Subject: Re: philosopher socrates "what you imagine in your mind not as perfect on picture"?
From: klmsjca-ga on 15 Aug 2002 11:52 PDT
 
I am sorry to say that this answer is a perfect exmple of somebody
trying to say something about something they know nothing about.  But,
I guess, you ask a two dollar question . . .

For anyone who's interested, let me try to briefly clear up a couple
of misconceptions that have shown themselves here.

Platos's Republic is a book in the format of a dialogue between
Socrates and several other characters.  In the republic socrates and
his fellows are discussing the idea of justice.  What is justice? 
What sorts of things does it pertain to, etc. etc.  What is a just
soul, how can we know if a particular soul is just or not?  well, it
seems that when we say that a soul is just, as when we say that
anything is arranged justly, we mean that all of the various parts are
in their proper places within the whole and serving their proper
function.

We know that there is a constant struggle in humans between our
passions or desires, and our reason.  WE might "know" that a ertain
thing is bad for us, but we are sometimes unable or unwilling to
resist the driving force of our passions.  In the anaglogy of the
city, (which, by the way, was certainly not a description of the
government of Athens during Plato's time!!!), the reason in humans
corresponds to the philosopher king in the city, and the passions of
humans corresponds to the masses, or the many, in the city.  Just as
we humans are always struggling to make our passions conform to our
reason, in order for us to live well and justly, and so that we will
be truly happy, there is a constant struggle in the city beteen the
philosopher king, who always knows the right way for his subjects to
live, and those subjects themselves, who think that they know but are
really very mistaken, and who might not eaisly submit themselves to
someone elses role.

For that reason gaurdians are the third part of the city.  The
gausrdians are like the will of  human.  Niehter passions themselves
nor pure reason alone can move a person to do anything, he must first
will himself to do it, right?  Well in the ity the gaurdians carry the
power of action.  They are like an army.  When they side with the
philosopher king, his plans are enforced.  When they might ever go
astray and side with the many, the king loses his power in a sort of
mutiny.

This was just a brif explanation of the analogy between the city and
the human soul . . . .  YOU MUST READ THE REPUBLIC if you wish to get
anything out of the analogy at all.  To say that this analogy does not
apply to the world today COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG.  I will not say any
more now.  I don't even know if anybody is reading this.  If you want
more info, post another coment asking me.  I will heck in a couple of
days.  But i am certainly no substitue for reading the book.

One more thing- you should DEFINITELY get a refund on that half-baked,
careless, and irresponsible answer.  People should stick to talking
about things that they know about.

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