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Q: The case of the unanswered question. ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: The case of the unanswered question.
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: dprk007-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 16 Jul 2005 12:30 PDT
Expires: 15 Aug 2005 12:30 PDT
Question ID: 544281
Dear all
Some time back I asked a question on this forum which still remains
unanswered (Question no. 538611).
I fear with the passage of time the memory of the question will recede
in the minds of the general public and even faster in the  minds of
the Google Researcher Community.
The gist of the question lies in the fact that the date filter on the
YAHOO search engine appears to rarely work and the date filter on the
GOOGLE search engine appears to NEVER work.

As you see from my original post, despite much commenting and clarifying
no researcher answered my question. I also raised the price on my
question twice.

Perhaps the question is VERY HARD or is is unanswerable. If this is so
some rationale or an explanation from a researcher would be much
appreciated.

Very kind  regards
DPRK007
Answer  
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
Answered By: czh-ga on 19 Jul 2005 01:52 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello dprk007-ga,

Thank you for encouraging me to find 2 or 3 more articles in addition
to the ones I posted in comments to help you understand the issues
involved with searching the Web by a date filter. I?m including three
more articles that discuss why determining the date of a web page is
difficult.

The major problem is the dynamic nature of the Web. The creator of any
website can change it any time and users may or may not be aware of
it. Web sites are spidered and indexed by the search engines and they
note the date they visited a site as the date of the site. The site
may not change at all but when it is revisited by the search engine
spider and the database index is updated, the date of the website is
changed. The difficulty of establishing a meaningful date for a
website is what makes it difficult to get meaningful search results
using the date filters of any of the search engines.

The three articles I?m including discuss these issues fairly clearly
and thoroughly and should help you figure out what are the limits of
the ?search by date? capabilities for any searches you?re trying to
conduct.

I hope that this information will be helpful.

Wishing you well.

~ czh ~


http://www.infotoday.com/online/nov04/OnTheNet.shtml
Nov/Dec 2004
Vol. 28 No. 6 ? Nov/Dec 2004
Dating the Web: The Confusion of Chronology
By Greg R. Notess
Reference Librarian Montana State University 

For those of us grounded in the print world of publishing, the date of
publication helps identify and distinguish different editions,
specific periodical issues, and even re-printings. The date of print
publication rarely matches the exact date of composition but does have
the distinct advantage of being basically unchangeable. Once published
and a publication date has been included on each item, the only way
authors can update or otherwise make a change is to issue a new
edition or a correction. Otherwise, they would have to track down
every single copy and make the change.

The Web, of course, is pretty much the opposite. Site owners can
change any page any time they wish. Unscrupulous but talented hacks
sometimes can even change other people's pages. And anyone who has
ever tried to cite a Web page knows that many have no publication date
information listed at all.

***** This is a thorough yet understandable discussion of the problems
of dating items on the web and consequently trying to figure out how
to search by date.

-------------------------------------------------


http://webshots.com.com/4520-10165_7-6206764-2.html
Google hacks
Tip 2: Search a particular date range

An undocumented but powerful feature of Google's search is the ability
to search within a particular date range. Before delving into the
actual use of date range searching, there are a few things you should
know. First, a date range search has nothing to do with the creation
date of the content and everything to do with the indexing date of the
content. If I create a page on March 8, 1999, for instance, and Google
doesn't get around to indexing it until May 22, 2002, for the purposes
of a date range search, the date in question is May 22, 2002.

Second, Google can index pages several times, and each time it does
so, the date on it changes. So don't count on a date range search
staying consistent from day to day. The "daterange: timestamp" can
change when a page is indexed more than once. Whether it does change
depends on whether the content of the page has changed.

Third, Google doesn't stand behind the results of a search done using
the date range syntaxes. So if you get a weird result, you can't
complain. Google would rather you use the date range options on its
Advanced Search page, but that page allows you to restrict your
options only to the last three months, six months, or year.

***** This article discusses Google?s date range search syntax.

-------------------------------------------------


http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/2160061
It's Tough to Get a Good Date with a Search Engine 
By Gary Price, News Editor  & Genie Tyburski, Guest Writer  
June 5, 2002 

Search engines have problems with calendar information. Bottom line:
you may end up searching for dates in all the wrong places.

This article focuses on date searching at Google, but searchers should
note that other engines - like AlltheWeb and AltaVista - provide
similar advanced features. The issues we raise occur regardless of the
engine used.

***** This article discusses the difficulties of using a date filter
on web searching.



===============
SEARCH STRATEGY
===============

search by date difficulties
problems with searching by date on the web
why can't  i search by date
internet OR web date search
dprk007-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
Many thanks for this

Comments  
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: czh-ga on 18 Jul 2005 00:21 PDT
 
Hello dprk007-ga,

I've also tried to find a search engine that would accomodate
searching by date and have been frustrated just like you. A little bit
of research turned up some articles that explain why date limited
searching is a problem. This doesn't answer your question but I hope
it sheds some light on the reasons why no one has tackled it.

Good luck.

~ czh ~

http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue9_10/wouters/index.html
Internet time and the reliability of search engines

http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/041012-104244
Problems With Searching By Date

http://www.searchtools.com/info/index-dates.html
Document Date Issues for Search Indexing 

http://www.searchengineshowdown.com/features/
Search Engine Features Chart -- Last updated Apr. 25, 2005
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: myoarin-ga on 18 Jul 2005 03:23 PDT
 
Hi Dprk007,

There is a way to keep your question "on top of the pile"  - at least
for people who search through G-A with an empty first box and "all
questions" in the second one.*

Just enter a clarification or comment to your question.  The new
activity brings it back to the head of list, since the results of this
type of search are date sorted (at least it seems so to me).

*For some reason, this only works after you have searched with a term
also in the first box, and then delete it for a new search.

Funny thing is, sometimes questions with no apparent new activity also
appear at the beginning of the list.

Myoarin  (who was also frustrated by the Creationist/Evolution Q's being cancelled.)
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: dprk007-ga on 18 Jul 2005 16:08 PDT
 
czh-ga

Very many thanks for the search sites you have come up with. This is
exactly the information I need (The commenter pianoboy77-ga has also
provided me with some good information).
If you can supply me with 2 or 3 more sites closely related to these I
will be happy to accept this as an official answer. I am still in the
process of absorbing the information in your sites.

You may also have noticed that I reposted this question twice. 
When I posted this over the weekend it was locked as it contained the word
GOOGLE.
 
For the record I am going to copy in here my comment to my 
 re reposted question (id no. 544282)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
justaskscott
Your comment is very much appreciated. Your colleague czh-ga and pianoboy77
have now provided me with some very relevent information/search sites
which I believe will finally answer my question. As some of the
information is a little technical it will take me some time to absorb
it. You may have noticed that I have reposted the question twice. The
first reposted question was locked over the weekend as it contained
the word "GOOGLE" It has now been unlocked.

Pianoboy77
Thank you very much for your very relevent comment. The reason why you cannot 
locate the original post is simply because the Google Editors decided
to remove it!! (Your comment actually alerted me to this fact as the
original post was still here this morning). I really did not believe
they would do this.

Google Editors sent me the following e-mail to justify their actions: 

>Hello dprk007-ga,

>Thank you for your question ID 538611, titled "Search
Machines.."We've >removed your question because you can find the
answer on ourmain site, free >of charge. All publicly available
information aboutGoogle is available at:
>://www.google.com/about.html.

>For additional questions about Google, please visit: 
>://www.google.com/support

>Thank you for your interest in Google Answers. Please visit us again.

>Sincerely,

>The Google Answers Team

I did go through their standard answer and question and how to information
and can find no information that has any relevance to my question.
Regarding the original post I regret now not having kept my own copy.
It is possible that another commenter (waukon-ga) may have cut and pasted my post.

Very best regards

DPRK007
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: dprk007-ga on 18 Jul 2005 17:01 PDT
 
Myoarin

I am indeed very disappointed in the demise of question ID 540055 regarding
Creationism/Intelligent design versus Evolution. I think we had a very
interesting/healthy/lively discussion going.
I suppose we will never know why the questioner chose to prematurely
close his/her question. Perhaps he just got bored with the question
not been answered or perhaps a bit bored with my long winded diatribes
or a combination of both ! :-).
There is however a series of very intersting articles in this week's New 
Scientist (British Science Magazine) discussing Intelligent Design and Evolution. 

With regard to my question on Search Engines you will have noticed
from my prior comment that the Google Editors decided to remove the
question from the system. (I am still trying to figure out where the
"material of an Adult nature was" (Laugh))
Although you can no longer view the question , I did indeed (as per
your suggestion) ask for clarifications.
One thing I have noticed about this forum though is if a researcher
has not attempted to answer the question after two weeks the question
will more than likely simply expire and it is easier to repost a new
question.
 I am now waiting to see how long this question lasts on the system !!!

As you have noticed any question with any new activity goes to the top
of the list. Remember the change of activity may simply be a change in
parameters
 (Price, Classification) which you may not have noticed or MORE likely
where someone has added a comment and the Google Editors immediately
remove it. (which they will the comment is nasty or obscene). In this
case you would notice no apparent change.

One mystery to me however is why the Question ID numbers have gaps in them
(anywhere from 1 to 10). My own theory is that as well as each
question having an ID Each comment, clarification, answer and rating
comment have their own ID which are chronologicaly sequenced by one as
they come in. Google Answers simply dont bother to display the ID for
each of these entities.
(Just a theory of course and like the "Big Bang" theory awaits full
 verification!!) 

Best Regards

DPRK007
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: myoarin-ga on 19 Jul 2005 04:30 PDT
 
Dprk007,
Thanks for your reply, and, yes, I have also wondered about the gaps
in the question numbers.
Re Creationism and Evolution:  I wanted to bring attention to an
article in the NY times by Cardinal Schönborn in Vienna.  Here is a
site with the text:

http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2005/07/cardinal-schoenborn-on-intelligent.html

You may be interested in all the sites that have taken up the discussion.
My comment:  
The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported on the article by Cardinal
Schönborn, pointing out with some surprise that the article on the
"Op-ed" page had been arranged through the PR agency used by Discovery
Institute, the think tank for the Intelligent Design movement. The
paper reported also that the VP of the institute had explained that he
had suggested to the Cardinal that he write the article in the NYT.
"Spiegel" (a weekly mag.) reports the the Cardinal says that he had
discussed "in a general way" the article with Cardinal Ratzinger
shortly before he was elected Pope.

HOpe you don't mind my misusing this question for this.

Regards, Myoarin
Subject: Re: The case of the unanswered question.
From: czh-ga on 20 Jul 2005 12:02 PDT
 
Hello dprk007-ga,

I'm glad I was able to shed some light on a frustrating topic. I
learned a lot too. Thanks for the five stars and tip.

~ czh ~

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