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Q: Black songbird ( No Answer,   22 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Black songbird
Category: Science > Biology
Asked by: archae0pteryx-ga
List Price: $5.09
Posted: 22 Jul 2005 21:46 PDT
Expires: 26 Jul 2005 23:57 PDT
Question ID: 546834
I need the name of a bird.  I am looking for a songbird that (a) is
black or mostly black in color, (b) has a beautiful song, and (c)
would be found outside of (not in) Spain but not too far
outside--e.g., North Africa, eastern Europe, or somewhere else that
would cause it to be regarded as exotic to Spain but still found near
enough that it could be captured and brought to Spain.

I hope this is not another impossible question.  I am really not
trying to play stump-the-researchers.  But naturally if I can find the
answers readily myself, I don't post a paying question.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: czh-ga on 22 Jul 2005 22:16 PDT
 
Hello archae0pteryx-ga,

It looks like this will be a tough one. This article gives a good
introduction. Good luck.

~ czh ~

http://www.iberianwildlife.com/spain/birds-spain-north-south.htm
Birds in Spain

525 bird species on the A, B & C lists (give or take one or two for
taxonomic changes!) have been recorded with certainty up to the end of
2003 in Spain (based on the latest data available; R. Gutiérrez in
litt.), plus a further 30 species of uncertain origin (e.g. old
records of Lappet-faced Vulture & White's Thrush) are also listed.
While this is one of the highest totals for any country in the Western
Palearctic, it is notably less e.g. than the U.K., but the number of
regularly occurring migrant, breeding and wintering species is
proportionately far higher, at ± 67.9%.

So what makes the birds of Spain so special?
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 22 Jul 2005 22:54 PDT
 
Sorry, czh.  Thanks for your comment, but I don't want a bird in
Spain.  I want a bird that *isn't* in Spain--one that would be exotic
to Spain.  Please reread the question.

Thanks,
Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: politicalguru-ga on 23 Jul 2005 00:33 PDT
 
Hi, 

I think you might have a small problem here: like in the case of your
langauge questions, environment and ecology of birds have changed
since the 16th Century.  Some birds have (sadly) vanished from their
original habitat, others have spread further into new territories. I
think this could be especially true for song-birds, which could be
hunted and sold, or later released (into a new habitat) because of
various reasons.

I also have a small anecdote. During my latest visit to Israel, I saw
parakeets on a tree. And I mean: many, colourful, parakeets. So I
asked my host what's that all about, and she said that apparently,
it's originated from parrots who have fled their cages (or released by
their owners, who got bored of looking after them) and have since bred
to form a community. So, a continent or two away from their natural
habitat, you have a parakeet community.
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 23 Jul 2005 00:46 PDT
 
Hi, politicalguru,

There was no mention of dates in my question.

Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: czh-ga on 23 Jul 2005 02:13 PDT
 
Hi archae0pteryx-ga,

"I don't want a bird in Spain.  I want a bird that *isn't* in
Spain--one that would be exotic to Spain."

Exactly!!! That's the point I'm making. Spain is very rich in all
kinds of birds so you'll be hard pressed to find one that would be
considered exotic in Spain.

Good luck.

~ czh ~
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 23 Jul 2005 05:34 PDT
 
Greetings Tryx,
This will be a tough one; I can only confirm the above. 

One site mentions the ?amazing variety of song birds? in a Spanish natural park.

This site merely confirms that there is great interest in song birds in Spain.
http://www.robirda.com/flock28.html  (talking about canaries. You don't need to
                                         look at it.)

When I saw that song thrush migrate from England to Spain in severe
weather, I thought that maybe they were rare there.  Not true, Spanish
"zorzales"

Re:  zorzales, song thrush, Turdus philomelo, 
http://gadesweb.iespana.es/englishversion/pueblos/olvera.htm

And just because their local names are nice:
Grive musicienne Turdus philomelo
sassello (Turdus p. philomelo T. musicus
Zanglijster (Turdus philomelo

Skylarks and starlings are also native to Spain.

It would seem that one would have to find a list of native Spanish
song birds and then tick them off on a list of European ones, hoping
one was left over.

Sorry.  But good luck, Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 23 Jul 2005 10:28 PDT
 
Ok, czh, I see your point.  I suppose I thought the question might be
approached by looking for a black songbird in, say, North Africa or
the Middle East that is found *only* there.  If it passed through
Spain on a migratory flight, that would be no problem as long as it
wasn't native to Spain.  And again, I thought (evidently in error)
that there'd be a bird person in the ranks who would know how to go
straight to the answer.

Thank you for your comments--
Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 23 Jul 2005 10:39 PDT
 
Hi, Myoarin, wer immer strebt--

Again I appreciate your efforts to help.  I was not envisioning
anything as complicated as a comparison of lists.  I truly thought
some ornithologist might pop up and say, "Why, there's the
green-tipped collywobbler, which is black all over except for an
emerald spot on its tail, and it's found only in Tunisia, and it has a
song so beautiful that kings as far away as Norway and Denmark used to
give them to each other as prized gifts."  That would be my bird.

I like your list of names.  Thank you.  "Zorzales"--maybe I can find a
use for that one.

Tryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 23 Jul 2005 10:41 PDT
 
Pardon me, Myoarin, I should have said "der immer strebt" in this context.

Tryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 23 Jul 2005 18:51 PDT
 
Just trying, very trying ..., Archae0pteryx.
Your questions are all so intriguing,
but I won't touch the newest one.
"Boot Inspector"!!
Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 24 Jul 2005 04:48 PDT
 
Good morning,
I was thinking of writing a Wikipedia article about a rare bird (Avis
singulara  - maybe faulty Latin but it's got "sing" ) for you, but
then this occurred to me:

http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw93/930830Albinism.htm

Regards, Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 24 Jul 2005 11:03 PDT
 
Hi there, Myoarin--

Very nifty solution!  Thank you.  All I have to do is pick a nice
songbird and paint it black with melanism.  "Rare black song thrush"
ought to do it.  But I'll leave the Q open a bit longer in case
somebody does know about the green-tipped collywobbler.

So why won't you touch "Boot Inspector"?  I know it's not because you're shy.

Tryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 24 Jul 2005 13:09 PDT
 
HI Tryx,
Either you or I missed the point.  With the link I was suggesting a
rare form of a normal songbird  - my assuming its rarity was more
important than its being black.
I could make up a whole story about its being rescued and raised by a
virgin princess (dad couldn't afford a white unicorn  - the myths
don't tell that they were normally a dowdy donkey gray).

Those boots:  one year of night school Italian doesn't qualify me for
Romance languages, and I got my come-uppance on Flemish.  _____(low
profile)  ;-).

Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 24 Jul 2005 14:32 PDT
 
Hi, Myoarin,

I thought I did get your point--I thought your point was that albinism
and melanism could affect the coloration in any species, and that
therefore I didn't have to find one that was naturally black as a
species trait.  That's why I thought "rare black song thrush" would do
it.  The song thrush might not normally come in black, but with the
condition of melanism, now it does.

I love sideways thinking!

By the way, in this case black was more important than rare.  That's
why there was no mention of rarity in my question.  I only wanted it
to be unusual in Spain, not unusual absolutely.  But absolute
unusualness takes care of that.  Excellent!

I get it now on the Spanish expression.  I thought you were implying
that there was something innately untouchable about the phrase, as if
I were being unthinkably vulgar without realizing it and that any
response to it would be seen as a blot on your character.

Tryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 24 Jul 2005 18:11 PDT
 
Tryx,
I  - I! -  missed the point, and must admit that I didn't finish the
article, full of self-congratulatory delight at finding that it
immediately supported so neatly my idea (reversal of your quest) to
let an albino song bird  be the one in your cage.

I should have added "lol" after my first remark about the boots.  I
sure didn't mean to be misunderstood that way  - or any way.

Did I say anything about being trying ...  ;-)

Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: rinu-ga on 24 Jul 2005 22:15 PDT
 
The songbird 'Koel' sounds right for you, but it is found only in
India and the South-east Asian region. But,maybe that is too far away
from Spain?

http://www.haryana-online.com/Fauna/Birds/koel.htm
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: rinu-ga on 24 Jul 2005 22:22 PDT
 
The songbird 'Koel' sounds right for you. But it is found mainly in
India and the South-east Region. Perhaps that is too far way from
Spain?

http://www.haryana-online.com/Fauna/Birds/koel.htm
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 24 Jul 2005 23:23 PDT
 
Thank you, Rinu--the koel looks perfect!  India is not too far away. 
But does it have a beautful song?

Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 24 Jul 2005 23:24 PDT
 
Myoarin,

No matter--you showed me the way.

Tryx
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: rinu-ga on 25 Jul 2005 06:14 PDT
 
The koel is said to welcome the spring in India. Its song is heard
mainly in MArch and April. And yes it has a lovely song.
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: myoarin-ga on 25 Jul 2005 08:12 PDT
 
Hi again,

Here are several photos:

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?action=searchresult&Bird_ID=425

These two sites and text from a third just confirm recognition of the
Koel as a song bird:
http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/tripreports/BangkokMorning.html
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030111/windows/main2.htm
"To return to the vachana of Allama. The great tree and the koel
(Indian cuckoo) are familiar to readers of Indian literature, from
Kalidasa to the present day. They are evocative of springtime when the
mango tree puts forth tender, magenta leaves, which the koels eat to
soothe their sore throats. And the high notes of those birds, hiding
in the big tree, give us great joy."

And this site gives you three sound bites.  Have to scroll down to cuckoos:
http://members.tripod.com/Thryomanes/BirdSounds1.html

(But how are you going to get it past customs and quarantine?)

And what was the call of the Greater Questioning Archae0pteryx?

"what would, what would, pleaeese; 
I need, I need, pleaeese; 
word, word word"                 ("Pleaeese" with a rising and falling pitch)

With pleasure, Myoarin
Subject: Re: Black songbird
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 26 Jul 2005 23:56 PDT
 
Well, thanks, all.  I think I have my answer with the help of the commenters.

Archae0pteryx

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