My girlfriend is becoming more religious, which is not in any way a
bad thing, but we have already had sex in our relationship, and each
of us has had multiple partners before meeting each other.  My
question comes from the fact that she now no longer wants to have sex,
because she feels religiously that it is the right thing to do, God
will bless our marriage when/if it comes, and it will make our
marriage that much more special.  I however feel that that what we
have been doing is in no way immoral, and the specialness has already
been lost because we have both already experienced sex.  I want to
know, religiously, if her reasoning makes sense to attempt to stop
having premarital sex now that we have started?  And I would also like
to know if the bible even says that having premarital sex is in any
way bad, (I know it says fornication is bad, but fornication is
translated from porneia which does not include my situation...I don't
think).

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Clarification of Question by givemesomeanswers-ga on 23 Jul 2005 22:43 PDT

Maybe it's just that I am not convinced that the word fornication in
the bible is the same meaning as the english definition of the word:
Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.
 After all the original Greek word that was translated to fornication
in those times was porneia which does not have the same meaning as the
english described fornication.

This may be of interest:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=500892

I think it may be wishful thinking to assume that the original
languages of the Bible have been mis-translated. Scholars have been
working on accurate trasnlations of the Bible for a long, long time,
and a comparison of various translations (i.e., New King James, NIV,
etc.) produces amazingly similar results, even though a different base
of scholars has translated the original text.

Kriswrite

I strongly suggest that you and your girlfriend undergo counseling
before you marry. When a person who has strong religious convictions
marries a person who does not share these convictions, there are
likely to be numerous disagreements and conflicts. Becoming "unequally
yoked" is something that the Bible cautions against.

Seeing as the question is placed in the religion forum, a Bible
principal can supply an answer. First Corinthians 6; 9 - 11 states the
behaviour that God does not approve of, but He gives people a chance
to change their ways. Verse 11 states " And yet that is what some of
you WERE, but you have been washed clean, but you have been
sanctified, but you have been declared righteous, in the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, and with the spirit of our God". What you have done
can be forgiven, but you must change your ways. To learn what your
current behaviour should be is at First Corinthians 7;8,9 ...now I say
to the unmarried persons....but if they do not have self control, let
them marry, for it is better to marry than to be inflamed with
passion". Good honest advice.

These are all very good comments, but from I biblical standpoint
fornication (NKJ version) is used in all of these versus, and yes it
is true that if you look up fornication in the english dictionary it
says: Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each
other.  But I wanted to reaserch the matter further, and supposedly
the original word used in the actual greek scripture was 'porneia'
which has a definition here:
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4202.  And I am not
trying to justify anything, I actually want to be convincied that God
wants her and I to do this, to ease my mind, but so far I havn't been.
 I do not want to do or believe something because it's tradiation and
it has been a belief passed down from generation to generation without
question, because that can be dangerous.

Good point pugwashjw.  

Even aside from the fornication/porneia debate, I would add that your
girlfriend has made a wise decision.  She has not only guarded herself
from an unwanted pregnancy, STD's, etc., but also from an impure
motive.  If you love her, and not just the sex, then you will respect
her decision, and not look for holes in her thinking just so you can
have sex.  It is true that the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not
have sex before marriage,"  but it is also true that the bible speaks
in great depth of purity, love, honor, patience, selflessness, and
self-control.  Since you have already said that you believe that
having sex before marriage is not bad, I would ask you if believe that
having sex before marriage is pure?  That changes it a little, huh?

How about not have sex before marriage?  Certainly that is pure.  No
one would argue in his right mind would argue that point.  How about
the issue of self-control or patience?  Is one exercising self-control
and patience when he or she stops having sex until the marriage bed? 
What about honor?  Is one showing honor to another person by
respecting his or her decision to stop having sex until the marriage
bed (I didn't even mention how it honors God)?

I could go on and on, but the point is that you already know the
answer.  I commend you for asking the question in an attempt to
understand what your girlfriend might be feeling, but even if you
never understand it (but I pray that you do), I hope that you can
respect her decision.  I also pray for your girlfriend.  She has made
a difficult decision, and it will not be easy for her to keep her
resolve.  Nonetheless, I hope that you will be a man and help her to
establish some integrity through her decision.

God bless!

ilmag

Hi again. You mentioned being concerned about traditions. The Jews had
1500 years of traditions, based on rules originally set up by Almighty
God himself. Over those years, tradition became more important than
love for your fellow man and Jesus condemned it. Matthew 15;6 says "
and so you have made the word of God invalid because of your
traditions". The word from god is plain...If you are passionate, get
married. Blow the traditions.

I have to agree with  pinkfreud-ga  and say it would be a good idea to
get some counseling BEFORE you get married.  Counseling is NOT a bad
thing and it does not have to indicate that there is a problem.  Think
about it this way:
   Marriage is not easy.  A long lasting marriage demands that the two
parties can communicate well. (with each other)  You both grew up with
different communicative skills.  You come from different families and
back grounds.  You have different styles of comminication.  Counseling
can help you become aware of your communication styles BEFORE you need
get to battle station stage.

I have been married almost 25 years and I did get counseling before we
got married.  My wife thought it might be a good idea. (nothing was
going wrong, the sex was great, but she wanted to do it; I thought it
couldn't hurt so I agreed.)  I am glad we did.

You aren't going to win any arguements with her over having vs. not
having sex.  If you argue you lose.  You must respect her decision and
then decide if not having sex right now is more important than
marrying her. (maybe it is maybe it isn't.  Maybe it is an indication
of her going down a particular road that you are not and that might
cause a lot of friction later.  Much better to find out now than
later.)

The Greek word por·neiŽa covers a broad meaning. Bauer, p. 693, says
under the word por·neiŽa that it means ?prostitution, unchastity,
fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.?

Commenting on Jesus? words in Mt 5:32 and 19:9, TDNT, Vol. VI, p. 592,
says that por·neiŽa refers to extra-marital intercourse.? Therefore,
the Scriptures use the term por·neiŽa in connection with married
persons. The same dictionary, on p. 594, in connection with Eph 5:3,
5, says that Paul ?realises that not every one has the gift of
continence, 1 C. 7:7. As a protection against the evil of fornication
the [single] man who does not have [continence] should take the
divinely prescribed way of a lawful marriage, 1 C. 7:2.? Hence, the
Scriptures use the term por·neiŽa also in connection with unmarried
persons engaging in unlawful sex relations and practices.?See 1Co 6:9.

B. F. Westcott, coeditor of the Westcott and Hort Greek text, in his
work, Saint Paul?s Epistle to the Ephesians, London and New York,
1906, p. 76, comments on the various meanings of por·neiŽa in the
Scriptures in a note on Eph 5:3, saying: ?This is a general term for
all unlawful intercourse, (I) adultery: Hos. ii. 2, 4 (LXX.); Matt. v.
32; xix. 9; (2) unlawful marriage, I Cor. v. I; (3) fornication, the
common sense as here [Eph 5:3].? By ?the common sense? evidently
reference is made to the modern, limited, sense involving only
unmarried persons.

In the Greek text por·neiŽa occurs in the following 25 places: Mt
5:32; 15:19; 19:9; Mr 7:21; Joh 8:41; Ac 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Co 5:1, 1;
6:13, 18; 7:2; 2Co 12:21; Ga 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Re 2:21;
9:21; 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.

The answer to the question as it was asked seems to me completely
delivered by justme22-ga. I don't believe further light on semantic
nuances could be found. Two of the asker's concerns -namely, the
correct interpretation of porneia, and whether it makes any sense from
the biblical point of view to stop now what has been done so far- seem
resolved by justme22-ga and  pugwashjw-ga's first comment
respectively. Not being a religious person at all, what I understand
from their seemingly well supported biblical explanations is that
those who strictly want to stand by the Bible, should not have sex out
of marriage.

Now, the underlying issue presented by the asker might go beyond the
religious aspect. People can be religious in different manners. Some
may need to stand by the Scriptures to the letter, and others may take
them in a more metaphoric way, or believe that not all what was
prescribed through the times need observance in our days. And if we
don't take the word religion as a synonym for Christianism, then you
can find that many people in the world can be strictly religious
feeling no sinfulness at all regarding extra or premarital sex.

So there's a life issue expressed in the answer, beyond the religious
problem, and I find that scubajim-ga's comment addresses it most
appropriately, and with him adhere to pinfreud-ga's advice for
undergoing counseling -which was the only help that really worked for
the hard times in my almost 19-year couple.

Hoping to have helped, wish the asker all the best.

Thank you justme22, and all the others who have given me information,
it has been most helpful to me.  I figure that if I should be basing
my life around the bible, that I should accuarately know the meanings
and contexts of every word in use.  This is only because the bible has
been used for many evil things throughout the ages just because some
men have used it to justify their motives.  Now I'm not saying that me
 not having premarital sex is in any way evil, but I need to have a
clear definition of why I would stop doing something that I love
doing.  I think that justme22 and pinkfreud have helped me with the
answer that I needed.
Thank You.

hi
I read ur question.before answering anything i would like to say that
i dont know about the bible.These are my own views for ur question.It
seems u really love her.i don't think pre-marital sex is bad With
somebody whom u love so much.Its b'coz u r making love with ur
love.But i'll say don't force her coz to some extent she is also
correct.u just pretend that she is correct.B'coz the fact which she is
denying to do before marriage is already done by her.And at the same
time she is not denying to have sex with you after marriage.So for the
sake of ur love for sometime till ur marriage just let her get
satisfied with her religious belief.Afterall she is yours and she will
always be yours.U know what both of u have done and u know well what
both of u will do in future.So be patience and for a short period give
ur support to her.After that you will see everything will be ok will
be according to what u want.I know you are right about your question
But for sometime u pretend that she is right.b'coz this is the right
way to win a womens heart.
So best of luck.

The answer is pretty simple.

According to the bible, if you did something wrong, it doesn't mean
that you are allowed to continue and actually it means the opposite:
you must stop and repent of it.

Now regarding if it is wrong to have sex before the marriage, it is of
course forbidden by the bible and this prohibition comes from the "You
will not commit an adultery" law (from the 7 laws for the whole
humanity given to Noah) as this law contains all the forbidden sexual
relationships (with a married woman, with a mother, with a sister,
with an animal and with a woman which is not married to you).

I have an advice for you: if you are sure you want to get married with
your girlfriend, you can marry tomorrow, so go on.

I strongly suspect that your girlfriend is trying it on and actually
saying "either you  pop the question or your fun is over".  She has
chosen religion as a convenient device to do this. Some girls say they
are pregnant to see how you react. Others suggest they have admirers.
Some suggest that they should take a break to see what they really
feel. It all comes done to ladies not wanting to waste time with
someone who appears slow in taking the relationship forward.

After reading your question and all the comments I was full of things
to say, the the Holy Spirit led me to the best advice I can give you.
Have you asked God about it? It is very easy to get the answers from
man, but the Lord has already provided the answer and if you feel
unclear on it you should ask and you will recieve. If you believe that
something as premarital sex may be a problem to God, you should have
the same drive to ask Him. If I question that it is a problem to God
or not, I admit that God exists, if God exists, and he tells me "ASK
AND YOU SHALL RECIEVE" then I should have the faith to know that He
will provide me with an answer.

I do not want to assume that you have not prayed about it and that
maybe this is part of the path God is using to give you the answer,
but I have seen a lot of people forget to ask the one they have the
questions about.

I pray that you shall recieve what you are seeking and I pray the best
for you and your girlfriend.

Yes it is a good idea to stop having premarital sex on religious
grounds and a better idea to give up the idea of temporary sense
gratification altogether.

Real religion is based on trying to please God rather than ourselves.
The essence of religion is to know and love God and in this way try
and please him through loving activities in relationship to Him. By
surrendering ones words, actions, thoughts to please God, one actually
becomes blissful, since this is our natual position as servants of
God.

However, currently we are not in that consciousness of loving God.
Rather we're in the opposite consciousness of trying to please
ourselves and we've forgotten our relationship with God. This attempt
to please ourselves is called sense gratification and the highest form
of sense gratification is sex. Therefore, in our current consciousness
in order for us be try and be happy, we attempt to get as much sense
gratification (physically, mentally, emotionally etc) as we can which
would also mean, try and enjoy sex life. Since this is our
consciousness of personal or social sense gratification it is very
difficult, if not impossible to refrain from engaging in sense
gratification. In this material consciousness the idea of God or God's
rules or religion is in the background and our personal quest for
pleasure through our senses is in the foreground.

Real religion is about changing that view to worrying about God's
pleasure rather than my own personal pleasure. The view is that since
we are created by God, we are subordinate to Him and therefore his
servants. Our duty then is to serve Him. However He does not impose
this on us forcefully. We all have our minute free will that He does
not interfere with. This then allows us the choice of serving God in a
loving way, or serving ourselves without any connection with God.
However if we choose to forget our connection with God, since this is
not our natural position the result is simply that we will never be
completely satisfied. The unnatural position of trying to enjoy
seperately from God instead of in co-operation with God results only
in temporary pleasure and pain. We can never find real pleasure and
never really become happy by engaging in sense gratification. Real
pleasure is that which does not end and a religious life is a pathway
to a real life or real pleasure in co-operation with God.

So you have the choice. Serve yourself through sense gratification,
headed by sex or serve God devotionally. So the thing here is that it
doesnt matter if you're married or not married. Even if you're in
marriage and engaging in sense gratification, it is something not in
connection with God, and therefore not the best activity. Ofcourse sex
outside marriage is a worse offense.

But the best activity is performing all activities in devotion to God.
So according to the codes of religion one can engage in sexual
activity only in marriage, and only to beget a child and to make that
child God conscious. Then the act is no longer for sense
gratification, but as a devotional offering to God.

Sense gratification is temporary. The happiness derived from it is
really like a drop in the ocean, compared to an eternal life of bliss
with God. Since you are not this body, but the soul, you are actually
eternal. Your body will die at some point, but you will continue to
exist. Sex life is based on the level of the body. But service to God
is based on the level of the soul. Therefore it can award real
unending pleasure. It simply requires a change in consciousness from
serving myself to serving God. The best way to serve God is to glorify
Him and His names.

The problem is we're addicted to sense gratification and therefore do
not care for God or His rules. We think this life is it and sex life
is natural and moral. The result is simply at some point, frustration
and pain. The sooner we realise these facts the better for us.