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Subject:
Popeye throwing himself thru the air
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: cronodragon-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
25 Jul 2005 23:45 PDT
Expires: 24 Aug 2005 23:45 PDT Question ID: 547952 |
There is a man attached to a relatively long string with a steel ball on the other end. This man we will call "Popeye", is strong enough to lift the ball and throw it up: 1. What's the relation between forces, speed, mass, to make the ball drag Popeye up thru the air? There are only basic arguments in this equation, no ellastic string, Popeye's body is not broken, etc... maybe there is some air drag, if useful. 2. How could Popeye solve how much force he needs to throw his system X meters up? Now that Popeye is flying, he climbs the string and takes the steel ball: 3. Did Popeye modify the speed of the ball by climbing the string? I think climbing slower or faster would make different results, but not sure. 4. Is there a way Popeye can control the direction of his flying system? How could he do that? 5. Is it possible for Popeye to accelerate his system? How? Would it help cutting the string? Regards! | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Popeye throwing himself thru the air
From: qed100-ga on 26 Jul 2005 05:10 PDT |
Hello, This scenario is impossible. As Popeye throws the ball there is equal force both on the ball, and on Popeye in the exact opposite direction. They cancel out and the system on average makes no progress whatsoever. The center of mass stays put. |
Subject:
Re: Popeye throwing himself thru the air
From: eudean-ga on 26 Jul 2005 14:30 PDT |
1. I think you're asking for too much here. The simple answer is the momentum of the ball will carry him into the air, but adding his mass to the system (when the tring becomes taut) would decrease the velocity of the ball. 2. If we can make certain assumptions, for example that he is throwing the ball straight up and he doesn't move when he throws the ball, then he gives the ball a certain amount of momentum, p_ball = m_ball * v_ball. When he lifts off the group as the string because taut, then his velocity changes, but since the momentum must be conserved (the total momentum being p_ball, since Popeye was stationary at the start), we have p_total = m_ball * v_ball + m_Popeye * v_Popeye. We know m_ball, m_Popeye, and p_total, and we know (since the Popeye is connected to the ball via a string) that v_ball = v_Popeye. Hence we can solve for v_Popeye. Then it is simple kinematics to determine how high he goes (h = v^2 / (2 * g) 3. Nope. Recall, the momentum of Popeye and the ball must be conserved. Since the momentum equals mass times velocity (p = m * v), if we know the mass hasn't changed and that the momentum cannot change, we know the velocity hasn't changed either. 4. If he brought some rocks with him, he could throw them to either side and thereby change his direction (he would drift in the direction opposite of the direction he threw the rocks). If we can assume air resistance, he could utilize that as well (some fins or something). 5. He could, again, by throwing some rocks he brought with him, or again by using air resistance to help him. If he had really strong lungs he could blow in a direction and accelerate his system. This question is basically the same as #4, since acceleration is simply changing speed and/or direction (recall, acceleration is change in velocity, and velocity is a speed in a direction). Cutting the string would do nothing (theoretically speaking). |
Subject:
Re: Popeye throwing himself thru the air
From: manuka-ga on 31 Jul 2005 19:03 PDT |
Hello, QED100-ga: One assumes that Popeye is standing on the ground, so that the force applied to him by the ball is cancelled out by the reaction force from the ground. Therefore it is possible, supposing he can throw it very very hard. Eudean-ga's answer is pretty much correct, but a couple of points occur to me: (1) and (2) are pretty much the same question, so it puzzles me that eudean-ga said (1) was too much but gave an outline of how to solve it in (2). For (2), we only have to assume he's throwing it straight up to get the maximum possible height - suppose Popeye applies a force F for a time t seconds, at an angle of j from the vertical. The momentum change is Ft, so the initial velocity of the ball is Ft/m_b and (assuming the string isn't all that long) the initial velocity of both will be Ft/(m_b + m_p) at angle j. The vertical component of this is Ft(cos j)/(m_b + m_p) - use this as v in h = v^2/2g to get the height attained. To work it backwards as you requested for (2) we get v = sqrt(2gX) and therefore F = (m_b + m_p).sqrt(2gX) / (t.cos j). For (4) and (5), as eudean said, once he's launched there's not much he can do other than throw things out. However, cutting the string might help - if he climbs onto the ball, then cuts the string, he's free to jump off the ball which will enable him to change his path somewhat (he's essentially throwing the ball away rather than extra rocks as eudean suggested). |
Subject:
Re: Popeye throwing himself thru the air
From: qed100-ga on 02 Aug 2005 23:06 PDT |
"QED100-ga: One assumes that Popeye is standing on the ground, so that the force applied to him by the ball is cancelled out by the reaction force from the ground. Therefore it is possible, supposing he can throw it very very hard." Keep in mind that if Popeye throws the ball vertically, then he is recoiled against Earth, and Earth is then pushed away from the ball and becomes part of the system. For Popeye to literally propell himself upwards by shoving the ball would mean that the mass center of the whole system is between Earth & the soles of Popeye's feet. But if the ball is receeding away due to an impulse, then the mass center must be between it & Popeye/Earth. Thus, he cannot propell himself in this fashion. It's impossible. |
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