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| Subject:
Indecisiveness and college
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: wildcrazyemad-ga List Price: $40.00 |
Posted:
31 Jul 2005 20:17 PDT
Expires: 30 Aug 2005 20:17 PDT Question ID: 550270 |
My questions pertain to a subject that many of us become familiar with at some point in our lives: indecisiveness. Currently, I?m in a dilemma which has been making me very stressed out and I?m hoping that the answer to this question will help me with future decisions as well. In the fall of 2002, I began my freshman year at a university in New York City and stayed there until the end of my sophomore year. As money became an issue, so did picking a major?.and quite frankly, I wasn?t sure what I wanted to major in?so I ultimately decided to take a break and rather than returning home and living with my mom and dad, I decided to take the year off and move to California to work for my cousin in real estate. I made this decision because quite frankly, I did not want to move in with my parents and work at a 7 dollar an hour job bagging groceries somewhere. I figured it?d be better if I moved to California (a place I loved the atmosphere of) and learned a trade that might actually come in handy down the road; besides I always wanted to settle down in California anyway, so I figured maybe this could be a head start. The year has gone by, and although I had originally decided on psychology as a major, I?ve found that all this hassle and debt for a bachelor?s degree in psychology is just not going to cut it. It is because of this that I?ve decided to go with a business degree, as I see a bachelor?s in business much more effective than a bachelor?s in psych. Having previously mentioned that I attended college at a university in New York City for only 2 years, I had acquired somewhere around 40,000 dollars of debt during that time (including federal government loans as well as private loans). In addition to that, when I moved to California I bought a car, which I have yet to pay off $15,000 on. With my total debt so far at the $55,000 mark and interest building on top of that, I figured that I really need to start paying more attention to expenses. However, I also realize that college only comes once in your life (for most of us), and I?d rather go through the experience of living on campus and making the most of college life than commuting to just save 5k-10k dollars per year. When I first moved to California, I thought it?d be a cost-effective plan to live in California for a year, then apply to state schools and try to register myself as a resident so that I receive in state tuition rates. Although I got accepted to my number one choice school, they ended up declaring me as a non-resident for the sole reason of myself not being independent for two years on my tax returns?and no matter how hard I try to fight it, they seem to hold their ground. This, translated, means that they will charge me $39,000 per year if I choose to live on campus, minus any financial aid that I receive (which seeing how late in the application process we are right now, will probably be a minimal amount). My parents do not have a high annual income, so I know I will definitely receive some forms of aid, but based on my own estimation, I would say maybe somewhere around 10,000-15,000 dollars worth, max. In addition to that, I would have to major in Economics rather than Business Management or Business Administration. However, it should be noted that it is a bit more of a prestigious school (the University of California at Irvine). Before moving on, it should also be noted that I do have two more options as far as school is concerned. One of them is to move back to the east coast and live with my parents and attend school out there (which would probably cost me around 13,000-15,000 dollars per year if I don?t live on campus). This is not appealing in any sense except for the fact that I?d get to be close to my parents and save money for immediate expenses, such as rent and food, and the long-term expense of tuition. Aside from that, I do not have many friends there, and as a commuter on a college campus I don?t think I would make very many; so I don?t believe I?d feel like I was fully making the most of the college experience. The other option is going to a California State University rather than a University of California school, because they tend to be cheaper but less prestigious. It would probably be somewhere around the 13,000-15,000 dollar a year mark as well, but the only problems with that are I don?t have the option of living on campus there, which means I have to pay rent, and there are certain courses which I would need to take at a community college in the fall semester of 2005 so that I can then transfer those courses in the spring semester 2005 to the California State University school. Again, I would probably lack a social life if I took that route, and a social life does mean a lot to me. However, I know I?m in a lot of debt and my only option of living on campus requires me to get an Economics degree and would require me to take out more money than my other options. I do not want to drown in debt, but at the same time I want to make sure I look back at my college experience and know that I took full advantage of it. I?m kind of shy, so living on campus definitely helps me meet people rather than going out of my way to meet them at class or organizations/clubs. This entire dilemma has caused me to go bonkers, as I constantly find myself in these types of situations. I find myself getting stressed out about them because I cannot make a decision without overanalyzing things?and then when I finally make a decision?long past when it?s due, I end up changing my mind and telling myself I should?ve made a different decision. My question is two parted: #1?is there a cure for this indecisiveness? Ever since my senior year of high school I have had problems choosing what I want to major in?and I keep changing it, then changing it back, then changing it back again?and ultimately no matter what I pick, I always end up regretting it?I don?t see any way for me to learn from it, as I constantly take wayyyyy too long to make decisions, and then usually I make decisions I regret anyway and I wonder what would?ve happened had I gone with the other decision. It limits me and makes me achieve very slow progress in what I can accomplish. Sometimes, nothing stands out to me when I try to make a decision, and I have no ?gut instinct? about what to do with it?so it just leaves me to analyze, analyze, analyze to the point that it drives myself as well as those around me insane. And it?s not just with major issues such as choosing a college degree, either?.I often times have trouble deciding what to eat when I go to restaurants! I look at the menu, take forever, and then usually just end up getting either the same thing I always do, or something I wish I would not have. It affects minor decisions such as what to eat for lunch and dinner all the way up through where I should live and what career to choose. And question # 2??.given my situation, what would be the best possible solution to finish up my education? I do not want to wait another year or two before I am counted as resident for in state tuition purposes?I definitely want to return in the fall semester of 2005. I also want to state that graduate school is also a possibility down the road, but it?s an ?iffy?. I?d say there?s about a 50/50 chance of it happening. Also, an answer in a timely manner would be greatly appreciated, as this may affect what I choose to do in the next couple of weeks; this is something that affects me personally and I really hope I can finally get some answers I?ve been wondering for a long time. I also would like to state that due to the nature of my question, I would love to pay much higher as this is a major issue in life for me, but unfortunately being a college kid, I am financially limited in what I can do. If I could get a response that isn?t just a bunch of links and is explained thoroughly by the researcher and from experience, I?d greatly appreciate it. | |
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| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: amitrai13-ga on 01 Aug 2005 09:08 PDT |
The point is you have to do something, whether you like it or not and thats what most of the people do. You have to start something somewhere and sometime, so start it now, start it now because anyways you are going to start it at sometime in future - start whatever you feel like doing. The more you delay things the more you get confused . select something to do and stick to it - This is only a suggesstion and is not an answer to your question. Good Luck. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: neutralobserver-ga on 01 Aug 2005 09:12 PDT |
You want specific advice, right? OK, how's this: 1. Attend and graduate as soon as you can, i.e., do not take big gaps of time off for trips to Europe or to go surfing in California, from the best, most prestigious college you can get into. It will never, ever serve you wrong to go to a good college. Ever. 2. If you have to incur debt to go to this college, so be it. But do not be stupid or careless with debt--you should finance only your education, not cars, travel, iPod's, movies or anything else other than tuition, books, food and rent. Period. 3. Pick an undergraduate major that you can get the best grades in. It does not matter what that major is. If you can graduate summa cum laude from Irvine with a degree in, e.g., photography because that's what you're good at, that's far better than graduating with a 3.0 in, e.g., economics. What matters later on resumes and to graduate schools (see step 4 below) is your GPA, not your major. 4. Go to graduate school. Get an MBA or a law degree or a masters in something. Do it right after undergraduate school if at all possible, and if impossible then work in a field that will help you when you do go to graduate school in a few years. You will never regret having an advanced degree. Ever. Disregard all those stories about billionaires who never went to college. You are not one of those people. Accept it and move on. 5. In order to do number 3 above, I realize you will have to make a decision, something you are apparently not good at. Take a piece of paper and right down the top ten things you like to do the most. I do not care what's on the list as long as it's stuff you like to do and are good at. You must be honest! Now take your list and call a guidance counselor at the best college you can get in to and ask him or her to suggest majors based on your list. Do not let the counselor dissuade you. Stick with your list and pick a major based on that list. No one ever went broke doing a job they love to do every day. 6. If you begin to vacillate, go back and look at your list. If you were really honest, you will remember that you picked this major because you LIKE this subject and you won?t change your mind. Graduate schools do not care what your major is (in most cases--some graduate programs do require a specific major, and I understand that) as long as you have killer grades. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: vpolhemus-ga on 01 Aug 2005 09:17 PDT |
I don't presume to be able to fully answer your questions, but would like to throw my two cents in as I was a economics major at UCI (class of '02) and worked for several years for University Housing as a Housing Advisor. First the major. I'll preferance by saying I knew from day one I wanted to be an economics major. However, there is a considerable difference between wanting to be an Economics major (such as I), and choosing Economics because Irvine does not offer a undergraduate degree in Business Administration. You might be suprised to know that most ecnomics majors at UCI fall in the boat of choosing economics as an alternative to Business Administration. The problem is that this logic is flawed. Economics at the University of California will teach you next to nothing about Business Administration. You will graduate with a degree in Economics having never taken a single class in accounting, having no better understanding of finance then a person who has read a couple issues of Forbes and Money magizine, having no understanding of marketing and no understanding of organization behavior. In short, you will know next to nothing about business. What you will learn in a over-simplified nutshell is that human decisions are driven by the weighing of costs and benefits and you will know supply and demand like the back of your hand. This is obviously a valuable apsect of business, but you could argue that majoring in Mandarin is just valuable given today's global economy. Once again, for me, I loved economics, so I was very happy learning the precise details and micro and macro economics. However, I did know people rather bitter towards the system because what they really wanted was a business education. The graduated feeling like what they learned was a waste. Is what you will learn in Economics at UCI valuable? Certainly. Is it practical? No. But is was never meant to be practical. The University of California system as a whole is a research institution. What that means is that nearly all undergraduate programs at UC campuses are not meant to directly infuse you with practical information you will use in a career. They are instead meant to give you a sound base of theory on which to continue your education at a graduate level. Even if you don't continue on to get a graduate degree, you will have honed your critical thinking skills, which will come in handy for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do for a career. Now, with that being said, Irvine does offer a Minor in Management. There is a huge demand for the minor, but if what you really want is business administration, go for it. I personally did not go that route, but that is because I choose instead to earn my Masters in Business Administration instead. I hope I'm not confusing the situation, I just want to make sure you are choosing economics for the right reason. In terms of housing, I assume that even though you are undecided about what to do, you have stayed on top of all deadlines with UCI and have submitted your on-campus housing applications which were due several months ago. It is very important that you maintain all due dates if you want on-campus housing. Even though new housing communities have opened, on-campus housing is still rather full. Don't ever make the assumption that just because you were admitted to the University, you'll get housing. You have to do your part and get everything in on time. I hope that I have not discouraged you from attending UCI. I loved the school then, and I still support it today. It is a beautiful campus in a great area of Orange County. I have not once regretted the decisions I made. If you have any other questions for a UCI Alumni, just let me know. vpolhemus |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: angiem357-ga on 01 Aug 2005 13:52 PDT |
Just a little advice from someone who has been (and still is, more or less) "There." I will graduate with my BA in November, right before I turn 30. First, don't worry about picking a major to carry you through your whole life. Pick something you're good at, do the coursework with enthusiasm, and get good grades. You need to be more worried about getting the degree than about what the degree means. Secondly, a bachelor's degree today holds about as much value as a high school degree did 20 years ago. It's a necessity for a productive life. Period. Focus on that. Third, education-related debt is more of a reality than ever before. You can't afford the alternative. Student loans are relatively easy to deal with. Fourth, very few people actually doing whatever it is they're degreed to do. Some do, then realize they don't enjoy it. Some do, and stick with it. Either way, it doesn't really matter. I read somewhere (I believe it was the Houston Chronicle) that people in today's workforce change careers at least 3 times in their lifetime. Fifth, don't overlook post-grad work. A bachelor's is the bare minimum these days. Getting a master's will make you more marketable and give you a leg up. Sixth, you can't be afraid to make a decision. Nothing you can do will be permanently disabling, as long as you commit to staying in school. Housing isn't life or death - you'll just have to make a decision and ride it out until you can change it, if you must. You have a lot of options, you just have to think rationally about it. Lastly, have confidence in yourself and faith that everything will work out just fine. Try not to get overwhelmed. Make a list, prioritize it, and deal with one thing at a time. Put your education first and everything else second - at least until you graduate. Worry about everything else later. This is an investment in your future and there will plenty of time to fret over life later. Like when you approach retirement age! Good luck! |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: czh-ga on 01 Aug 2005 15:47 PDT |
Hello again wildcrazyemad-ga, I'm offering this as a comment instead of as a clarification or answer because I think you'll be unhappy with the course of action I recommend for you. You said: "I also would like to state that due to the nature of my question, I would love to pay much higher as this is a major issue in life for me, but unfortunately being a college kid, I am financially limited in what I can do. If I could get a response that isn?t just a bunch of links and is explained thoroughly by the researcher and from experience, I?d greatly appreciate it." Your lengthy description of your situation is encapsulated by these closing remarks from your original post and holds the key to your finding a solution. You claim that your status as a "college kid" should give you special consideration regarding payment for your question. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works. Google Answers is a business where researchers offer their services for payment. They do the work to support themselves and their families or buy trinkets or whatever use they may have for their earnings. You are in the market to buy their services. I suggest that you review the Google Answers pricing guidelines and FAQ so you can see how the customer/researcher transactions work. You have to pay for these services, as you have to pay for most everything in life. I'm sure you had to sign a contract and agree to a payment schedule when you bought that $15,000 car. If you can afford that car, you can afford to pay for Google Answers too. http://answers.google.com/answers/pricing.html http://answers.google.com/answers/faq.html In his clarification, sublime1-ga offered you some excellent exercises to help you grapple with your issues. You said you completed them but didn't get anything out of the effort. You said, "I'm hoping to receive a bit more of a personal, direct, and thorough answer." This is the problem, we can't give you a personal, direct and thorough answer if you are not willing to grapple with your personal and career issues. It seems you may need professional help because you are unwilling to do the work yourself -- which will cost money, of course. You insist that you don't want a "bunch of links" but want something "explained thoroughly by the researcher and from experience." Learning is about wading through the bunch of links. I would have thought you'd have figured this out in two years of college. If you don't want to process information for yourself, don't bother with finishing your college degree. It will require a lot of work and you don't seem interested in doing any work. At the price you've set, a good collection of thoughtfully chosen links from a researcher would be a very good deal. As far as a researcher explaining things "from experience" goes, this too wouldn't be much use to you. The researcher could talk about their own experiences and guess how this might relate to your questions but the real problem-solving regarding your indecision and career choice dilemma will come from you reflecting on your own experience. There are hundreds of website dedicated to career choice that offer thousands of articles, exercises, discussion forums and counselors who can help with you working through your particular career choice dilemma. Most of these will cost you nothing but time and effort and no out-of-pocket expenses. If you're still confused about your options after you've done the necessary self-reflection, you could then ask some pertinent questions and researchers could give you some meaningful answers. So, I hope you don't consider my comments too harsh, but I think your best bet will be to read some links to educate yourself about your situation and then reformulate your question. http://home.ubalt.edu/ntsbarsh/Business-stat/opre/partXIII.htm Leadership Decision Making (This is an excellent collection of essays from a college course on decision-making. The section on "How People Avoid Making Serious Decisions" is especially pertinent to your situation.) http://home.nyc.rr.com/bcmnc/Bennett/MensQuestions/Decisive_Indecisive_intro.html Indecisiveness in Men (This collection of Men's Questions is interesting and the discussion of "Indeciveness in Men" as illustrated by stories and movies is accessible and entertaining.) http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap13/chap13o.htm DECISION-MAKING AND PROBLEM-SOLVING (This article discusses the psychological issues involved in decision making and might be especially helpful to you in figuring out your reluctance to make decisions.) http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3752/is_200205/ai_n9078714 Factors related to indecisiveness and career indecision in undecided college students (This is an academic paper written for career counselors to help their clients with their career decision making issues. The discussion should help you get some relevant information about your own career indecision.) Best wishes for coming to resolution on your indecisiveness. ~ czh ~ |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: summer95-ga on 01 Aug 2005 21:14 PDT |
wildcrazyemad-ga? I?d like to offer some free advice regarding your two questions and comment on some of the advice that others have offered. But first, let me preface my comments and advice by telling a little bit about myself. One of my titles is Human Resource Manager, so I have some concept of what HR people are looking for in the people they interview and hire. I work for a company that, at last count, has 69 manufacturing plants and multi-billions of dollars in sales. So we?re not exactly a Ma & Pa Kettle operation. I?m an active member of SHRM (Society for Human Resource Management), so I get to meet a lot of other HR folks and exchange ideas and information. sublime1-ga and czh-ga have offered you some exceptional advice. My recommendation is that you re-read the advice they?ve offered and then act on it. neutralobserver-ga has also offered some advice; some of which I agree with and some that may not be the best guidance. I?ll address his advice on a point by point basis. 1) I couldn?t agree more. Get your degree and get it now. The longer you wait the more difficult it becomes to get back into school. And yes, while graduating from a prestigious school will never hurt you, I doubt that it will really ever help you. I?ve never met a HR person who said ?Wow! I interviewed a Harvard grad last week.? In short, HR folks really aren?t impressed with where you went to school. But they will be impressed that you have a degree. 2) I couldn?t have said it better myself. Manage your debt well now and for the rest of your life. Debt can actually be a good tool when it?s properly managed. 3) HR folks aren?t so shallow as to not realize that getting a 4.0 GPA in Under Water Basket Weaving is less of an accomplishment than a 3.0 GPA in math or physics. We also went to school and we remember what the hard classes were. Your resume can look nice and glossy, but at some point you?ll have to sit across from someone who wants to know about you and what you have to offer. And if all you have to offer is ?knit one, pearl two? then you aren?t likely to be hired. 4) Super advice. Particularly if you want to make a lot more money than the average Joe does. The statistics are on your side if you have a masters; you will make a lot more money. 5) Pretty good advice. I would just add this. Include things that you think you might like to do. 6) Again, pretty good advice. Although I?m not convinced that the killer grades are all that impressive. Remember that 50% of the doctors, lawyers, scientists, accounts, etc. were in the lower half of their class. And some advice on your two questions. 1) Most people suffer from indecisiveness from time to time and in varying degrees. But at some point they, and you, must make a decision. And yes, not making a decision is a decision. In short, there really isn?t a ?cure? for indecisiveness, but there is a way to make a decision. You say that you over analyze things. Not good. But analyzing is good. Write down the facts, desires, goals and all of the major points that are relevant to the decision. Now this next step is most important. Define what you desire to achieve from the analysis. Then, approach the analysis from a scientific/business perspective and do the analysis, always being mindful of what you desire to achieve. Once you?ve made your decision, stop the analysis and execute the decision. And remember, even if, in hindsight, you may not have made the best decision, ask yourself this; did I make a bad decision. The answer is almost always no. 2) This question is only a symptom of your first question; your indecisiveness. No one here can really make that decision for you. Well, we could, but is that really what you want? I doubt it. You simply need to get past the indecisiveness and make a decision. Best of luck to you. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: elitebomber-ga on 01 Aug 2005 22:26 PDT |
Wow after reading some of these comments I feel I should have had to pay to read these. Great stuff and advice! This advice really motivates me to raise my GPA in the next 2 years before I graduate with a degree in computer science so I have a shot at grad school. You think a 3.0 GPA in computer science would have a shot at a grad school? |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: frde-ga on 02 Aug 2005 05:48 PDT |
I am going to suggest an alternative approach While I have a prestigious degree in Economics, a subject that I thoroughly enjoyed, both the 'prestige' and 'economics' have been of little use. It is a big world out there, the chances are high that whatever your background, you'll land up living with and mixing with the bottom 90%. For example, your cousin obviously offered you a chance to work in his real estate business - how did it work out ? Are you still there ? Is there some sort of pressure on you - perhaps from your parents ? If you are worried about making money, then don't worry. - If you want it you'll get it - unless you are a bit thick. I thought about doing an MBA a long time ago, no problem getting in, the only snag is that the good MBAs that I've worked with were good before they went in. It is amazing how much one can pick up about most areas by picking peoples' brains, reading primers and keeping ones eyes open. Qualifications are useful, as is the brazen arrogance that one can acquire, but they are only 'keys' - they let you in without kicking in the door or sneaking in the window - but they do not guarantee a friendly reception. Write down a list of things you hate. When in doubt about decisions, flip a coin, if you feel hacked of that 'tails' turned up, then turn the coin over. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: knowledge_seeker-ga on 05 Aug 2005 10:27 PDT |
Hi there! If this doesn't motivate you, nothing will. A brilliant (yet never delivered)speech by a brilliant man, Paul Graham. What you'll wish you had known http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html Read it all the way through and ignore the fact that is it was meant for highschool grads. It applies to everyone. Good luck with your dreams ... -K~ |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: joey123455555-ga on 24 Aug 2005 11:07 PDT |
I have had very similar problems with making decisions and course choices. I also get caught up trying to make long term plans and get very worried and stressed about whatever I eventually do. I'd suggest doing some counselling with someone you can trust. I found I had a very poor self image which I wanted courses/education to "fix". The detail of what you study / where / is less important than getting a bit happier with yourself. There is some excellent advice here as well. The only thing I'd disaggree with is the urgency of deciding something soon. Have a chat with a counseller and take life at your own pace. I hope this doesn't sound too intrusive or I'm making personal assumptions. I mainly basing it on my own experience. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: nccretired-ga on 25 Sep 2005 07:50 PDT |
Hello there, I am a retired career counselor after 21 years in the US Navy I have dealt with these problems with people a lot. To get to the point you need to do a couple of things. One is to actually decide what you want to be when you grow up? and how do you get there? Unfortuantly as many folks try to lay out there lives from start to finish, that is just not realistic. The one thing I also would think about is things that you like to do. Even if it is a hobby or a desire. There is a job for it somewhere you just need to find it. Going about a career decision with such a broad spectrum of choices is impossible. Your resume would like just like a broke college student looking for work rather than someone with a plan. Maybe if you looked at life in a different light such as what makes you tick? Do you like kids? Then teach go to school for teaching and the Department of Education will pay you back some of your tuition if you agreet to work in a title one school for a certain amount of time. Do you like computers? reading, writing, whatever makes your heart go pitter patter is what you should do. You can' base a decision on what degree if you are not interested in the subject matter which it seems to be in your case. There are a lot of jobs in the world and you need to find the one for you but your indecision is part of growing up is holding you back. You moved away from mom and dad and it seems you like it, so that was one decision you made so it possible for you to make a decison right? If you don't want anyone to give you advice through books or web sites then you truly do not want to find out what you want to be when you grow up, you simply want to be told what to do. No one can answer the question of "what do I want to be when I grow up but you!" If you do not make a decison you will end up like me taking 20 years to finish my bachelors degree while being in the Navy and deploying for 6 months at a time for 13 times. I am now working on my masters and will be done in Jan. So you need to stop trying to get an answer to this question and do research as to what you like. There is no way you will get a meaninful job without research and the ability to know what the job is about so my advice is to get up, brush off the old indecisiveness and think for your self. I am 45 years old and even though I have retired after 21 years in the Navy, I am know working at an East Coast College as an admissions rep and I see this every day. Sorry for this long post but I think you are wasting your time waiting for the career fairy to appear. I hope I did not insult you. |
| Subject:
Re: Indecisiveness and college
From: jummai-ga on 27 Sep 2005 05:03 PDT |
Well, while studying in college, you should do some activities or join some of the professional clubs that you are interested in. It will help you gain more experiences by actually doing it. And you will get the chance to know people in that field which can provide you more info about your dream job. Then you can make a decision easier for your future career. If you are interested in latest recruitment news, you can visit http://e-jobs.blogspot.com Good luck... |
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