Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: What are the effects of glass and plastic bullets? ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: What are the effects of glass and plastic bullets?
Category: Health > Medicine
Asked by: pne-ga
List Price: $12.00
Posted: 16 Aug 2002 06:28 PDT
Expires: 15 Sep 2002 06:28 PDT
Question ID: 55211
I read on Slashdot (
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=38085&cid=4081498 ) that glass
and plastic bullets are outlawed by the Geneva convention because
"they make it extraordinarily difficult to treat a wound" and "are
particularly nasty".

Now, Slashdot is not necessarily a place known for its peer-reviewed
factual research, but the statement sounded plausible. What is it that
makes glass bullets "particularly nasty", and how do they "make it
extraordinarily difficult to treat a wound"? Are plastic bullets
outlawed for the same reason?

Where is the bit in the Geneva convention which outlaws such weapons
(along with "chemical weapons [and] shotguns")? A quick Google brought
me to two Geneva conventions (about civilians and prisoners-of-war),
but on a quick skim I found the information in neither. I suspect
there is another Geneva convention (or another part), probably
applying to soldiers.

Clarification of Question by pne-ga on 16 Aug 2002 06:30 PDT
If you feel that the research cannot adequately cover both plastic and
glass bullets for the rate offered (since I can imagine the effects
may well be different for both), then please address glass bullets.

I'm mostly looking for medical/anatomical information, i.e. what
happens when such a bullet creates and enters a wound etc.
Answer  
Subject: Re: What are the effects of glass and plastic bullets?
Answered By: seizer-ga on 16 Aug 2002 10:24 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
As an avid reader of Slashdot myself, I have to take issue with your
implication that Slashdot does any research at all. It's the first
time I've heard of it ;-)

Anyway, on to your question.

The very short answer is yes, glass and plastic bullets are probably
forbidden under the Geneva Convention of 1949, with several caveats -
the main two being, a) nobody really takes any notice of the
convention and b) glass bullets were never manufactured.

The field you're interested in, is that of terminal ballistics - "the
science of what happens when the bullet strikes the target (and thus
the mechanism of incapacitation)":

http://pages.zdnet.com/remingtonsniper/remington700rifleclub/id13.html

Be warned: the above page has a solid anti-gun-control agenda, which
runs throughout the text. Judging by their enthusiasm for the topic,
though, it can probably be relied upon as a fairly good source for
much of the information you require.

As you can see from this page, the actual origin of the ban was in the
Hague Convention of 1899, which banned the use of expanding
projectiles in warfare. This rule was subsequently adopted in the
Geneva Conventions of 1949. Expanding projectiles are those usually
belong to the "soft point" or "hollow point" class of projectiles. See
Declaration III of the Convention, but note that it frowns only on the
projectile class, not on specific types:

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/hague.html

For full details on these classes of bullets, see the link below: 

http://www.planetrainbowsix.com/armm/nato3/nato3_manual/ammo.htm

The BBC takes a different view, and sees the expansion of the bullet
as a way to limit entry too deep within the body, perhaps limiting
more fatal injuries - but this does not seem to be the mainstream
opinion in available articles on the internet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1443324.stm

The reason bullets cause injury and can kill, is the damage they
produce as they enter the body. A small calibre solid lead bullet can
quite easily pass through a non-vital fleshy area, exiting the body
intact and deformed very little, and cause little injury to a man; in
comparison, a large calibre soft point bullet will enter the body,
flatten out or even seperate into different parts, and rip through a
greater area of flesh. The kinetic impact produced will enter still
further into the body, even if a bone manages to stop the bullet. See
the link below for more information (the penultimate and ultimate
paragraphs are most useful):

http://www.ncku.edu.tw/~medicine/wwwboard/messages/397.html

Any bullet which splits up upon entry was (and perhaps still is) seen
as unsporting. It makes it very difficult to for a field medic to
retrieve all the various parts from an injured solder, which can lead
to various septicaemic conditions which tend(ed) to be fatal on the
front line.

To the specifics of glass and plastic bullets: Glass bullets have, as
far as I can tell, never been manufactured. Glass is not a material
suited to withstanding the immense forces placed upon it when fired.
If there was a glass which could be made into a fireable bullet, it
would be too strong to deliver the supposed benefit (that of
shattering into shards when it hit its target). This is, however,
speculation from myself - someone with post-high-school physics may be
able to tell you otherwise.

The plastic category encompasses a wider range, including what some
people call rubber bullets. Plastics is a huge field, ranging from the
old Bakerlite to the modern supermarket bags. At the time the Hague
Convention was passed, plastics were just beginning to enter the
public consciousness (having been around in preliminary forms since
the mid 1800s). At the time, most plastics were brittle - perhaps
useful as a bullet which might fragment. These days, police use
plastic bullets in situations where (supposedly) nonfatal crowd
control methods are needed. At ranges which are not immediate, these
bullets are nonfatal but they still inflict serious injury on a number
of people. The page below contains four photos of moderate facial
injuries to minors - if this is likely to upset you, then please skip
this link.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/4521/

There have been 17 cases in Northern Ireland (a province held by the
United Kingdom, which is in constant terrorist uproar) where plastic
bullets have caused fatal injuries. Please see the link below for
details (it contains supplementary information beyond the initial page
- see the links at the bottom). Also, note that the page owners have a
political agenda (but who doesn't?).

http://www.relativesforjustice.com/plastic/plastic.htm

Finally, for a slightly more detailed medical approach to these
bullets, see the site below. It contains one photograph of an adult
male, whose back has been fairly badly injured by these bullets. Yet
again, if you feel worried about viewing this kind of material, it
might be best to skip this one too. Note that the article contains
some excellent references to print journals, if you are interested in
taking this topic further.

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2002/Rubber-Bullets-Israeli-Arab25may02.htm

I hope this has increased your understanding of the issue. If you need
clarification of this answer in any way, I'd be happy to help you out.

-- Search terms: plastic bullet, glass bullet, plastic Geneva
Convention, plastic Hague Accords, plastic Hague Convention 1899

Request for Answer Clarification by pne-ga on 17 Aug 2002 05:14 PDT
Thank you for your answer and for the comments! Still I think my
question wasn't completely answered. You gave me a lot of information
on what happens when a bullet enters a body, information on different
types of ammunition and what they might be used for, whether plastic
ammunition is harmful or not, or how incapacitation works, all of
which was interesting to read. You also pointed me to the Hague
Convention which disallowed projectiles which easily expand or
fragment in the body, which was a useful.

But my main question was "What is it that makes glass bullets
'particularly nasty', and how do they 'make it extraordinarily
difficult to treat a wound'?". You mentioned that glass bullets are
more a theoretical possibility since they aren't manufactured
(apparently because it would be difficult to make a material both hard
enough and brittle enough to give the desired effects), which is also
useful information (and is a good explanation why I hadn't heard of
glass bullets before).

But the bit about why they are nasty and how (expanding or fragmenting
-- I suppose glass bullets are supposed to be the latter) bullets make
it difficult to treat a wound was not, I feel, answered very well:
only a brief comment in the paragraph beginning "Any bullet which
splits up...". There was a lot of material about temporary and
permanent cavities, penetration depths, and theories as to how people
are incapacitated (kinetic energy, hole size, ...), but not much on
difficulty of treatment.

Can you find me more information on why expanding or fragmenting
bullets make wounds difficult to treat, or the difficulties
encountered in such wounds?

Clarification of Answer by seizer-ga on 17 Aug 2002 13:05 PDT
My apologies for a slightly delayed response...

Some further insight as to why fragmenting bullets make a wound
particularly difficult to treat can be found in the article linked to
below. Specifically, "Surgery is easy when you know the anatomy, but
when the anatomy is destroyed, the surgeon is at a loss."

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/archives/shoottomaim.htm

When a bullet fragments into tens, hundreds, or even thousands of
pieces, it will spread through the body, destroying what it meets
along the way, until its momentum is spent.  The injuries caused are
that of a solid bullet, pretty much multiplied by the fragment count.
To see how a bullet fragments (along with graphics) you could see
here:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article2.htm

Summarising what I posted originally and here, in order to address
your particular question about treatment, it seems that the issue
boils down to two main points:

* Kinetic energy of the impact destroying tissue over a larger area,
so there is less to build on when the medic or body is attempting to
heal.
* Haemorrhaging (especially internal) immediately following impact is
greatly multiplied by fragmentation, causing probably larger bloodloss
than a single bullet. Internal haemorrhaging is typically very
difficult to treat.

The hypothetical glass bullet would satisfy the second point very
well, but due to the low weight (as mentioned by thx1138 in the
comment below) would not do so well with the first. An ideal bullet
would be a uranium one which fragmented on entry (uranium being the
heaviest stable element generally worked with).

I hope this clarifies your question!
pne-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars
Thank you for your answer and for the clarification!

Comments  
Subject: Re: What are the effects of glass and plastic bullets?
From: thx1138-ga on 16 Aug 2002 11:10 PDT
 
Interesting question (and good answer!)

Just to add my bit.
As seizer pointed out, glass bullets do not exist.  After all why
would you want them? Hollow point bullets do alot of damage and are
much easier to make than bullets made of glass.  Also glass bullets
wouldn´t have the weight to travel any great distance compared to
their lead counterparts.  Also glass is a very hard substance and
would very quickly wear down the barrel of a gun.

A link regarding what is allowed and not allowed in war time is here:
http://www.vbs.admin.ch/internet/gst/KVR/e/e-treaties-index.htm
Subject: Re: What are the effects of glass and plastic bullets?
From: wengland-ga on 16 Aug 2002 13:50 PDT
 
Further information on terminal ballistics and performance of various
rounds:

http://www.molonlabe.net/johns/terminal.htm

Pay particular attention to the performance of the M855 5.56mm NATO
cartridge - that's the standard round fired by nearly all US armed
forces in the M16 variant rifles.  The round rotates, fragments and
leaves lots of small pieces all over the body of the victim.  Not
exactally 'humane'.

Direct link to the JPEG:
http://www.molonlabe.net/johns/wound1.gif

The Soviet 7.62x54 round also has similar performance, perhaps because
of the cannelure in the bullet, although with more spectacular results
becasue of the higher mass and energy of the round.  I was not able to
find details on that round immediately, I will continue to search.

Further Reading on Terminal Ballistics:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html
Subject: The reason they are particularly nasty
From: marsguy-ga on 16 Oct 2002 14:44 PDT
 
The problem with these materials from a treatment point of view would
be that they don't show up on an x-ray, so tracking fragments would be
quite difficult.  Often, bullet fragments are left in place, but not
knowing where they are at all would force extensive internal
examination to ensure that they are not in a particularly bad place.

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy