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| Subject:
Abandonment of porperty
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: barbie_gal-ga List Price: $15.00 |
Posted:
18 Aug 2005 05:48 PDT
Expires: 17 Sep 2005 05:48 PDT Question ID: 557191 |
Hy husband and his brother share ownership of a summer cottage. Ten years ago, the brother built an second cottage on the same piece of property. At that time,we began improvements to the older cottage (windows, painting, plumbing, decorating)the brother did not contribute to the cost of repairs/upgrades/utilities nor has he slept there. They share the cost of property taxes and road maintenence costs. Does he still own half of the original building? Ownership of the ground/land is not in dispute, just the cottage. Thanks |
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| There is no answer at this time. |
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| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: research_help-ga on 18 Aug 2005 05:53 PDT |
You do not gain ownership over a shared cottage simply by making improvements on it or sleeping in it. His building a separate cottage on the shared land is a separate issue. Just like if I rent an apartment or get a room in a hotel, I do not own the room if I choose to make improvements to it. |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: philnj-ga on 18 Aug 2005 10:43 PDT |
I am no expert, but I've read a lot of deeds. If the title to the land specifies that it covers any dwellings on the land, then whoever is named on the title also owns the land and any buildings on it. If the taxes and property maintenance are being paid by both men, then I assume that both men acknowlegde that the land is owned jointly. I sense that there are some sort of ill feelings on your part over some aspect of this joint ownership. Legally, both brothers own equal parts of each cottage. Practically, I am going to guess that one brother considers one cottage to be his and the other cottage to belong to the other. That can work until one brother (or his family) decides that there is an inequity or feels that the status quo is not being respected. This then becomes a matter for a family therapist, and not a legal question. |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: barbie_gal-ga on 18 Aug 2005 11:58 PDT |
Hi, thanks for your info. The are ill feelings over the original cottage. I (we) have spent considerable money on maintanence and upgrades with no help ($$$ or labor) from the brother. We keep the original cottage in top shape and he doesn't do any upkeep or maintanence on the cottage he built. Now it appears that he wishes to start lending the original cottage to his friends. If this is OK because he "owns" half, I would like to get half of my money spent on utilities and upgrades back. And I will remove my valuable antiques and art from the dwelling. Thanks BG |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: research_help-ga on 18 Aug 2005 12:30 PDT |
Unless you had an agreement prior to improvements being done, the brother does not legally owe you anything. You might have a case, albeit possibly a weak one, if the work you paid for was necessary to maintain the structural or legal integrity of the building (like fixing a gushing pipe, or bringing dangerous electrical wiring up to code) and the work was needed and there was no reasonable way to communicate with the brother. Otherwise, I believe you can chalk up your "investment" to a life lesson. Perhaps if you ever sell the property, you could recoup some of your costs from the proceeds of the sale. |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: research_help-ga on 18 Aug 2005 12:32 PDT |
Just to point out the couterargument, if the brother asserts his legal rights to half the original cottage, you can assert your legal right to his newer cottage. You own half of that building the same way he owns half of "your" building. |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: myoarin-ga on 18 Aug 2005 18:55 PDT |
Barbie, If you will tell us in which country this is, a Researcher with legal experience may give a more professional answer or commment. As you know - see disclaimer - nothing here is professional or legal advice. In some countries, it may be possible to own a building on land owned by someone else or in common with someone else. This was so in the German Democratic Republic, but it does not exist any more, Furthermore, there would have to be a deed describing this. In most countries, land and buildings cannot be owned separately, and Philnj-ga would be correct, that the brother who has built a second cottage has a greater problem, having enhanced the total property which is jointly owned, OR in the other case, having built it without securing a deed for his individual ownership of the new cottage. SO - your husband needs a lawyer/solicitor, but it seems that he has some leverage to force his brother to come to an agreement. It may be possible to deed USE of the cottages to each and their descendents, BUT it seems an opportune time for them to agree to change their joint ownership of the property to individual ownership of each half, which hopefully could be amicably settled. Jointly owned and used porperty is a situation just waiting for a dispute. I would talk to a lawyer and pick the solution that seems best, get a deed drafted, and then present it as a suggestion to the brother, or have the lawyer talk to him, to keep it from being a face-to-face family confrontation. In some countries, lawyers' fees are based on the value of the property, but this can be negotiable if the lawyer agrees that the value is that pertaining to your husband's future half and the old cottage. Get a lawyer, and good luck, Myoarin |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: barbie_gal-ga on 18 Aug 2005 19:48 PDT |
Hi,Thanks to all for the info/points of view. This property is in Nova Scotia Canada. It was purchased in 1969...for $300.00!!! The parents of the brothers are still alive but don't seem able to influence their oldest child. BG |
| Subject:
Re: Abandonment of porperty
From: myoarin-ga on 19 Aug 2005 05:00 PDT |
Hi again, Barbie, Nova Scotia, lovely place - and girls (had a NS girlfirend once :) Here is a site that explains that ownership of land includes all permanent structures , i.e., buildings. http://www.canadianlawsite.com/realestateNS.html I should have realized before that "strata" or "condominium" ownership could be an alternative. This does not apply to just apartment buildings, but could - I think - be a way to give each brother ownership of one cottage and define each's use of the jointly owned land. I think that is a messy solution, technically and for the future, since an eventual purchaser may not like the situation. Practically, this would end up with a definition of who had rights to which part of the land, effectively defining a border. Then it would be just as well - better - to go ahead and split the property into two parcels. Or !!! they could consider splitting into more then two parcels if this is feasable and of interest. It is never too soon to think about this, since zoning laws about subdividing property often preclude further subdivision but respect existing smaller parcels. They could continue to own these jointly - if some lots would obviously be worth more than others - or they could agree who got what. But enough speculation from here, Good luck, Myoarin |
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