I would like to know how a flagon of cider was originally supposed to be drunk.
ie was it directly from the flagon over the shoulder or into a glass/mug.
Our bet is between one who says the flagon was simply a vessel from
which to pour and the other says it was used directly over the
shoulder into the mouth. Who is correct?

---

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 20 Aug 2005 18:42 PDT

Early flagon vessels, and in particularly those of the more styalized
elizabethan era had tankard type lids and spouts that would have made
the stereotypical shoulder sipping posture impractical if not
impossible. Consider these early styles and see what I mean:

COPITC FLAGON
http://www.ianjphoto.ndirect.co.uk/'Coptic'-Flagon--This-one-c.jpg

PEWTER FLAGON
http://www.gibsonpewter.com/Products/images/flagon_original.jpg

ELIZABETHAN FLAGON
http://www.realshopping.co.uk/acatalog/flagon-elizabethan.jpg


The pottery "jug" style may have given rise to a less mannerly posture
out of necessity or convenience but these early styles were largely
pitchers rather than jugs. I tend to go with the one of you who
suggests that pouring was probably the oringinal approach.

Since we may never prove one way or the other, how's that for logic?

tutuzdad-ga

---

Clarification of Question by bigboast-ga on 21 Aug 2005 02:50 PDT

Thanks for that.  Is there any support for my asscertion that at some
point cider was drunk straight from a flagon, somehow positioned over
the shoulder?
This bet is with my son - and I really could do with being right!
Thanks again

---

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 21 Aug 2005 11:32 PDT

I'm afraid not. Since it is almost impossible to prove a negative we
have to go with the evidence at hand - and that is that most flagons
were probably used primarily as vessels for "storing" liquids rather
than vessels for "serving" liquids individually.

I suspect you had hoped (as most of us do) that your son would grow up
smarter than you. Don't look at this as being wrong, look at it as an
opportunity to pat yourself on the back for a job well done. Either
way it looks like you win.

So, in view of the lack of definitive evidence, shall I claim, or
shall I wait? The choice is yours.

tutuzdad-ga

---

Clarification of Question by bigboast-ga on 23 Aug 2005 02:22 PDT

Well a big thank you to everyone.

I guess I will have to bow to the inevitable and concede my position.
Thanks for all the help.  The king is now dead - long live the "New
King"!

Dear bigboast-ga;

I admire your ability to concede to a formidable opponent and your
willingness to admit that your choice of username might have been a
bit premature. Since our brief discussion and clarification seems to
have convinced you that my logic is probably more ?right? than ?wrong?
? in lieu of an solid answer ? I am reposting my information here
merely as a means of formally closing your question.

. . . . . . . . . 

Early flagon vessels, and in particularly those of the more stylized
Elizabethan era had tankard type lids and spouts that would have made
the stereotypical shoulder sipping posture impractical if not
impossible. Consider these early styles and see what I mean:

COPITC FLAGON
http://www.ianjphoto.ndirect.co.uk/'Coptic'-Flagon--This-one-c.jpg

PEWTER FLAGON
http://www.gibsonpewter.com/Products/images/flagon_original.jpg

ELIZABETHAN FLAGON
http://www.realshopping.co.uk/acatalog/flagon-elizabethan.jpg

The pottery "jug" style may have given rise to a less mannerly posture
out of necessity or convenience but these early styles were largely
pitchers rather than jugs. I tend to go with the one of you who
suggests that pouring was probably the original approach.

I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise, I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad ? Google Answers Researcher


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SEARCH TERMS USED:

Flagon

Jug 

Cider

Tankard

Comprehensive answer - even though it wasn't the one I wanted!  Very
pleased with the overall experience though, Thanks

I expect that you are looking for a source somewhat older than the
fifties of the last century, but if that will do, I can confirm that I
and others have drunk cider from a gallon jar, one of those glass ones
with a small ring at the neck.
We bought freshly pressed apple juice; after a few days it was well on
its way to becoming cider ...
The technique is to put your thumb in the ring, with your palm up (the
back of your hand to the glass), and then raise the jar with your arm.
 Works quite well.

Where I live in Germany, cider is very much a traditional beverage
(great outcry when the law was changed to tax it as such and not at
the lower rate for foodstuffs).  Traditionally, pubs that sell cider
bring a very large stoneware flagon from the cellar and place it on a
cradle on the bar.  From this smaller pitchers are filled and served
with glasses to the patrons at the tables.

(It's not so bad to let the youngster win a bet occasionally, ...  ;-)
Myoarin

Bigboast,
Passing your question again, I recognized a basic factor  - I believe.
Fermented beverages  - wine, beer, cider -  are produced in large
vessels and were stored in large ones, kegs, barrels, before the days
when bottles were common.  They were then served by drawing off enough
for immediate consumption, important as they deteriorated on longer
exposure to oxygen, hence flagons, pitchers, tankards, usually drunk
on the premises or within sight of the brewery smoke stack, as a
German expression puts it.
With distilled beverages, after they were produced, this was not a
problem.  They may have been aged in barrels, but then they could be
drawn off into smaller vessels for further storage, shipping and sale,
conveniently in stoneware jugs, like my gallon cider jar.  Why do we
speak of a fifth of whisky? Because the bottle was that fraction of
the basic measure of one gallon.
Some brand of whiskey (Irish?) still uses "fifth" sized jugs in
reminiscence of this.
Why didn't you ask about drinking whiskey from a jug  - or jar? 
"There's whiskey in the jar, O"
Cheers, Myoarin