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Subject:
Confession: the Latin version
Category: Relationships and Society > Religion Asked by: archae0pteryx-ga List Price: $6.00 |
Posted:
27 Aug 2005 20:18 PDT
Expires: 26 Sep 2005 20:18 PDT Question ID: 561316 |
Please refer to my #558557. Now I would like to know the Latin for those parts of the confessional ritual that would have been conducted in Latin prior to Vatican II. If other parts of the process besides the language were affected by changes made at that time, please mention those also. Thank you, Archae0pteryx |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 29 Aug 2005 12:02 PDT |
HI Tryx, How about this: http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/penance.html And see the clickable "sample confession". I rather expect that the priest's first words to the penitent could also be (have been) in Latin, but this site does not mention them at all. Do you need the Pater noster and Ave Maria in Latin too? http://www.s-line.de/homepages/horber-privat/latein4b.htm I believe only during mass do Catholics say the last phrase: "For Thine is the the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever," hence its not being part of the Latin text. And here is the Ave Maria in Latin and several languages: http://www.answers.com/topic/hail-mary And now that you have finished your first confession - and no doubt are very contrite and full of rue - you will need to say at least one rosary. This site is will tell you how: http://members.aol.com/DASOFIA/maria.html Cheers, Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 29 Aug 2005 23:31 PDT |
Oh, hi, Myoarin--fancy meeting you here! I'm splitting my question into three parts in an attempt to increase my chances of getting the whole picture. This is part 2. What I'm looking for in this one is just the Latin for any of the words spoken by the priest or the penitent during confession that would have been spoken in Latin prior to Vatican II. My prior question (that is, the answer supplied by tlspiegel-ga) provides a kind of script: Make sign of cross or say it aloud. Bless me, father, for I have sinned. Blessing by priest. Enumeration of sins. (etc.) So--if the penitent said "In the name of the Father..." in Latin, then I need the Latin. If not, not. If the penitent said "Bless me, father..." in Latin, then I need the Latin. If not, not. etc. I will pick and choose little bits from this for the scene in my story. I am not going to reproduce the whole thing. But I don't know what bits I want yet. That depends in part on what they are, how they sound, etc., and in part on how they serve to move what's happening with my character along. I don't know if I need "Our Father" and "Hail Mary" in Latin. Do I? If they were part of a penance, would they have been required in Latin? The next thing I am going to research is that interesting part about the priest's asking clarifying questions. I have the feeling that there is a real dramatic potential there. I think I may be able to find out about that on my own, though. And then the third part, the tough part, will be to ask if it was basically done the same way in the Middle Ages. Specifically, in the Lowlands in 1310-1311. But I'm not there yet. Thanks for stopping by to help me on my way! Tryx |
Subject:
Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 30 Aug 2005 06:47 PDT |
Hi Tryx, Why don't you write about teenagers at the turn of the millennium? But maybe you are and just don't need any help on the subject. ;) I don't know if you read through my first link; at the end of the confession there are Latin prayers by the penitent and the priest. In my first comment, I deleted my speculation that the opening formal words were in the vernacular in order to enhance one-on-one communication, and also because the penitent immediately has/had to go on and say how long it had been since the last confession, something that s/he wouldn't have been able to do in Latin. Now that you ask, actually it seems that you won't need the Ave Maria in Latin. This link from my first one: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07110b.htm tells all about it, suggesting with an early Italian text that it was originally in the venacular - of course, at a time when educated persons were fluent in Latin. Also the English and German (especially) texts are in a style that suggests they were used long before Vatican II. Maybe someone can comment on the French and Spanish texts. You should know, that one does not pray to Maria or saints but asks for their intercession, persons usually invoking their patron saint - the one whose name they have (almost forgot that question). The Pater noster, as a text from the Latin translation of the Bible and part of the Latin liturgy, was known by rote, of course, but I don't know if someone in the first half of the 20th c. would have used Latin when he came to those beads on his rosary ("Rosenkranz" in German. The roses on that colorful site have significance). Yes, the priest's requests for clarification could be interesting, as the joke in a comment to your other question suggests, or out of prurient interest (if you want that kind of priest in your story), or fishing for information about a corespondent who might not have confessed, or a fellow criminal .... Well, that should be enough to elicit some response from good Roman Catholics. They shouldn't let me of Huegenot ancestry be a source on this subject. :) Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: fruitfly_-ga on 30 Aug 2005 09:58 PDT |
Hi! I can't help you with Pater Noster in Latin, but if you need Mamma Mia in English (os Sweedish)... LOL Sorry! :-) |
Subject:
Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 03 Sep 2005 05:32 PDT |
Hello Tryx, Last night I asked an RC friend with experience in Venezuela, USA and Germany about saying the Rosary. Pre and post Vatican II, it was and is spoken in the vernacular (spelled correctly, this time). You and I might have thought that this is done with respect and contemplation of the meaning of the words - and maybe some do it that way - but from her demonstration, both the Our Father and the Ave Marie are spoken as fast as possible, each with only two breaths. Her recital reminded me that this was also the practice at a Jesuit seminary in the 50s where my sister audited courses. Each lecture was begun and ended with an Our Father spoken with only one pause to take a breath. Always trying, Myoarin |
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