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Q: Confession: the Latin version ( No Answer,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Confession: the Latin version
Category: Relationships and Society > Religion
Asked by: archae0pteryx-ga
List Price: $6.00
Posted: 27 Aug 2005 20:18 PDT
Expires: 26 Sep 2005 20:18 PDT
Question ID: 561316
Please refer to my #558557.

Now I would like to know the Latin for those parts of the confessional
ritual that would have been conducted in Latin prior to Vatican II.

If other parts of the process besides the language were affected by
changes made at that time, please mention those also.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx
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There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 29 Aug 2005 12:02 PDT
 
HI Tryx,
How about this:

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/penance.html

And see the clickable "sample confession".

I rather expect that the priest's first words to the penitent could
also be (have been) in Latin, but this site does not mention them at
all.
Do you need the Pater noster and Ave Maria in Latin too?

http://www.s-line.de/homepages/horber-privat/latein4b.htm

I believe only during mass do Catholics say the last phrase: "For
Thine is the the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and
ever," hence its not being part of the Latin text.

And here is the Ave Maria in Latin and several languages:

http://www.answers.com/topic/hail-mary

And now that you have finished your first confession  - and no doubt
are very contrite and full of rue - you will need to say at least one
rosary.

This site is will tell you how: 

http://members.aol.com/DASOFIA/maria.html  

Cheers, Myoarin
Subject: Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 29 Aug 2005 23:31 PDT
 
Oh, hi, Myoarin--fancy meeting you here!

I'm splitting my question into three parts in an attempt to increase
my chances of getting the whole picture.  This is part 2.  What I'm
looking for in this one  is just the Latin for any of the words spoken
by the priest or the penitent during confession that would have been
spoken in Latin prior to Vatican II.  My prior question (that is, the
answer supplied by tlspiegel-ga) provides a kind of script:

Make sign of cross or say it aloud.
Bless me, father, for I have sinned.
Blessing by priest.
Enumeration of sins.
(etc.)

So--if the penitent said "In the name of the Father..." in Latin, then
I need the Latin.  If not, not.
If the penitent said "Bless me, father..." in Latin, then I need the
Latin.  If not, not.
etc.

I will pick and choose little bits from this for the scene in my
story.  I am not going to reproduce the whole thing.  But I don't know
what bits I want yet.  That depends in part on what they are, how they
sound, etc., and in part on how they serve to move what's happening
with my character along.

I don't know if I need "Our Father" and "Hail Mary" in Latin.  Do I? 
If they were part of a penance, would they have been required in
Latin?

The next thing I am going to research is that interesting part about
the priest's asking clarifying questions.  I have the feeling that
there is a real dramatic potential there.  I think I may be able to
find out about that on my own, though.

And then the third part, the tough part, will be to ask if it was
basically done the same way in the Middle Ages.  Specifically, in the
Lowlands in 1310-1311.  But I'm not there yet.

Thanks for stopping by to help me on my way!

Tryx
Subject: Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 30 Aug 2005 06:47 PDT
 
Hi Tryx,
Why don't you write about teenagers at the turn of the millennium? 
But maybe you are and just don't need any help on the subject.  ;)

I don't know if you read through my first link; at the end of the
confession there are Latin prayers by the penitent and the priest.  In
my first comment, I deleted my speculation that the opening formal
words were in the vernacular in order to enhance one-on-one
communication, and also because the penitent immediately has/had to go
on and say how long it had been since the last confession, something
that s/he wouldn't have been able to do in Latin.

Now that you ask, actually it seems that you won't need the Ave Maria
in Latin.  This link from my first one:  
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07110b.htm
tells all about it, suggesting with an early Italian text that it was
originally in the venacular  - of course, at a time when educated
persons were fluent in Latin.  Also the English and German
(especially) texts are in a style that suggests they were used long
before Vatican II.
Maybe someone can comment on the French and Spanish texts.
You should know, that one does not pray to Maria or saints but asks
for their intercession, persons usually invoking their patron saint  -
the one whose name they have  (almost forgot that question).

The Pater noster, as a text from the Latin translation of the Bible
and part of the Latin liturgy, was known by rote, of course, but I
don't know if someone in the first half of the 20th c. would have used
Latin when he came to those beads on his rosary ("Rosenkranz" in
German. The roses on that colorful site have significance).

Yes, the priest's requests for clarification could be interesting, as
the joke  in a comment to your other question suggests, or out of
prurient interest (if you want that kind of priest in your story), or
fishing for information about a corespondent who might not have
confessed, or a fellow criminal ....

Well, that should be enough to elicit some response from good Roman
Catholics.  They shouldn't let me of Huegenot ancestry be a source on
this subject.  :)
Myoarin
Subject: Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: fruitfly_-ga on 30 Aug 2005 09:58 PDT
 
Hi!
I can't help you with Pater Noster in Latin, but if you need Mamma Mia
in English (os Sweedish)...

LOL

Sorry! :-)
Subject: Re: Confession: the Latin version
From: myoarin-ga on 03 Sep 2005 05:32 PDT
 
Hello Tryx,
Last night I asked an RC friend with experience in Venezuela, USA and
Germany about saying the Rosary. Pre and post Vatican II, it was and
is spoken in the vernacular (spelled correctly, this time).  You and I
might have thought that this is done with respect and contemplation of
the meaning of the words  - and maybe some do it that way -  but from
her demonstration, both the Our Father and the Ave Marie are spoken as
fast as possible, each with only two breaths.  Her recital reminded me
that this was also the practice at a Jesuit seminary in the 50s where
my sister audited courses.  Each lecture was begun and ended with an
Our Father spoken with only one pause to take a breath.
Always trying, Myoarin

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