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Subject:
Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
Category: Science > Chemistry Asked by: notsoaps-ga List Price: $45.00 |
Posted:
12 Sep 2005 14:31 PDT
Expires: 12 Oct 2005 14:31 PDT Question ID: 567281 |
What Chemicals can I use to formulate a non detergent based surface disinfectant that is NON Corrosive and inactivates Virii, Bacterium (Gram +/-), Fungi, Spores and Prions? Research Suggests : Aldehydes. Problem with Aldehydes - Carcinogens, Eye, Nose and Skin Irritant, Don't cover Prions, dont cover all micro-organisims. (EPA, FDA, OSHA will not approve) Problem with Bleach - Corrosive Problem with QAC's - no effect on Spores and Prions OPA - too expensive, stain skin Chlorine - Could be corrosive and causes scaling. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: drdandy-ga on 16 Sep 2005 15:57 PDT |
Nothing inactivate prions. For the other beasts something like benzalkonium chloride may fit the bill. |
Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 21 Sep 2005 17:59 PDT |
I would try OXONE, that one is very potent desinfectant, with a trace of silver salt like silver nitrate. You need only a trace of Ag+ to generate Ag++, extremely potent oxidizer. But OXONE should work well without silver additive also. Another possibility is Chloramine T or dichloroisocyanuric acid sodium salt. These organochlorines are used also for pool desinfecting, they generate hypochlorite on hydrolysis but are less corrosive (pH nearly neutral). Skin, protein based fibres(silk, wool)and and polyamides like nylon will develop the chlorine-like pool stink on contact with these agents. Sodium periodate is quite potent and mild desinfectant, but not safe for ingestion. If you want something that is food-safe, you can do sodium metabisulfite but it is less potent than hypochlorite/peroxide based agents. As mentioned before, prions are hard to destroy since they are very stable and very poorly soluble - they tend to associate with lipids. If you need to reduce the amount/infectivity of prions, you would need something like glutaraldehyde in pretty high concentration and this would not be pleasant on skin. Can you add some heavy metal like copper or cobalt in your formulation? Cu(++) is not very toxic to humans. |
Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 26 Sep 2005 15:48 PDT |
One more thing: if oxone (=potassium persulfate tripple salt) turns out to be too corrosive for your application (are metal surfaces to be considered?), you can perhaps try tert-butyl hydroperoxide water solution in combination with glutaraldehyde (or glyoxal) and with (or without) some added metal salt like CuSO4. tBuOOH is much more stable than H2O2 or solutions of peroxo-salts and unlike them can be combined with aldehydes. The disadvantage is explosivity in higly concentrated anhydrous solutions - but they sell 70% tBu-hydroperoxide in water and this should be pretty safe to work with. tBuOOH is not corrosive to metal surfaces but can be unpleasant on skin. You would have to find the right concentration. Also, sodium azide is very powerfull antimicrobial (that can be combined with tBuOOH and aldehydes) but it is a fairly poisonous on infestion but not hard to work with (it is not explosive in water solution and quite safe as solid also). Azide must not be combined with any heavy metals. I would need to know the exact application of your disinfectant. If you plan to use it as a soak bath, simple alcaline solution used for glass de-greasing (with trace of chlorox bleach will work wonders. You would prepare about 3% KOH solution with about 2% added K3PO4 (or K4P2O7), add a small amount of a common dish-washing household detergent and trace amount of bleach. Since the solution is alcaline, no aluminum or Ti/Al alloys are allowed but most glass, plastic and other metal surfaces will get cleaned/disinfected beautifly by a short soak. Very skin-unfriendly. |
Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: notsoaps-ga on 03 Oct 2005 20:55 PDT |
The application of the product is based on the capacity to convert these disinfecting liquids into an aerosol form. Since operating conditions and environments vary, it is important that these checmical compositions be non-toxic to humans and non corrosive to metals, alloys, plastics and objects present in the environment or to put it another way, we should be able to convert to aerosol form in a house without damaging anything other than microbacteria. |
Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 04 Oct 2005 19:50 PDT |
For the application you are describing, ozone and chlorine dioxide are typicaly used. Ozone destroys rubber and anything that is latex-based and acts as a powerful bleach. Chlorine dioxide has also bleaching properties and also accelerates aging of rubber but with les disastrous effect. These are super-highly reactive oxidizer gases that eat every damned living thing. The idea is that the building / room is gassed with this highly obnoxious gas which leaves no residue after being properly ventilated. It has been used to de-contaminate Congress during Anthrax letter attacs. If you want to develop something less drastic, you have to expect that it will be also less efficient. Since you are talking about spraying a solution, your disinfectant will leave a residue. So the residue has to be pretty harmless on prolonged exposure (=indoors). I suggest that you use a mixture of agents. I would mix tert-butyl hydroperoxide (or benzoyl peroxide) with some acceptable amount of copper sulfate and also add Triclosan (this is a highly efficient antibacterial agent that acts against mould and yeast also). Triclosan is pretty innocuous, it is used in antiseptic soaps. I would also try to add glutaraldehyde or glyoxal. As you pointed out, low-molecular weight aldehydes are irritant to people but they oxidize / evaporate reasonably fast. Tert-butylhydroperoxide is also volatile, so it goes away over time. Dibenzoyl peroxide is not. (10% benzoyl peroxide ointment is used to treat acne, so it should not be as bad). If you were to spray this stuff in house, I would recommend to remove all plants and animals and ventilate for at least one day afterwards. The residue left after the application (when aldehydes evaporate) should be pretty safe. But you have to check with regulatory agencies about the permisible levels of copper and triclosan and the other agents in a house to live in. You want to have it in writing because of product liability. Even a remote possibility of harm to an infant over prolonged period or exacerbation of symptoms of a asthma pacient can expose you to a litigation bullshit that would put you out of business. |
Subject:
Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 09 Oct 2005 01:31 PDT |
There is one more alternative worth looking into: intense UV light irradiation. And very easy to do. This will not do anything for prions, however. And the people operating it would have to wear protective goggles and cover their skin to avoid eye/skin damage. (Unless they operate the swich from a distance.) Non-corrosive, no residue. Some plastics and fabrics will have a color change. ("sun bleaching" effect) Also, titanium white (TiO2 hydrated) has outstanding disinfecting properties when it gets irradiated with a strong source of visible or UV light. TiO2 is perfectly non-toxic (it is used as bulk agent to make drug tablets). The trouble is that titanium white is an insoluble white pigment. You can make a stable slurry of it - but the disinfected surface would have to be washed after irradiation (unless you want them to be white:). |
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