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Q: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant. ( No Answer,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
Category: Science > Chemistry
Asked by: notsoaps-ga
List Price: $45.00
Posted: 12 Sep 2005 14:31 PDT
Expires: 12 Oct 2005 14:31 PDT
Question ID: 567281
What Chemicals can I use to formulate a non detergent based surface
disinfectant that is NON Corrosive and inactivates Virii, Bacterium
(Gram +/-), Fungi, Spores and Prions?

Research Suggests : Aldehydes. 

Problem with Aldehydes - Carcinogens, Eye, Nose and Skin Irritant,
Don't cover Prions, dont cover all micro-organisims. (EPA, FDA, OSHA
will not approve)
Problem with Bleach - Corrosive
Problem with QAC's - no effect on Spores and Prions
OPA - too expensive, stain skin
Chlorine - Could be corrosive and causes scaling.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: drdandy-ga on 16 Sep 2005 15:57 PDT
 
Nothing inactivate prions.  For the other beasts something like
benzalkonium chloride may fit the bill.
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 21 Sep 2005 17:59 PDT
 
I would try OXONE, that one is very potent desinfectant, with a trace
of silver salt like silver nitrate. You need only a trace of Ag+ to
generate Ag++, extremely potent oxidizer. But OXONE should work well
without silver additive also.

Another possibility is Chloramine T or dichloroisocyanuric acid sodium
salt. These organochlorines are used also for pool desinfecting, they
generate hypochlorite on hydrolysis but are less corrosive (pH nearly
neutral). Skin, protein based fibres(silk, wool)and and polyamides
like nylon will develop the chlorine-like pool stink on contact with
these agents.

Sodium periodate is quite potent and mild desinfectant, but not safe for ingestion.

If you want something that is food-safe, you can do sodium
metabisulfite but it is less potent than hypochlorite/peroxide based
agents.

As mentioned before, prions are hard to destroy since they are very
stable and very poorly soluble - they tend to associate with lipids.

If you need to reduce the amount/infectivity of prions, you would need
something like glutaraldehyde in pretty high concentration and this
would not be pleasant on skin. Can you add some heavy metal like
copper or cobalt in your formulation? Cu(++) is not very toxic to
humans.
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 26 Sep 2005 15:48 PDT
 
One more thing: if oxone (=potassium persulfate tripple salt) turns
out to be too corrosive for your application (are metal surfaces to be
considered?), you can perhaps try tert-butyl hydroperoxide water
solution in combination with glutaraldehyde (or glyoxal) and with (or
without) some added metal salt like CuSO4. tBuOOH is much more stable
than H2O2 or solutions of peroxo-salts and unlike them can be combined
with aldehydes. The disadvantage is explosivity in higly concentrated
anhydrous solutions - but they sell 70% tBu-hydroperoxide in water and
this should be pretty safe to work with. tBuOOH is not corrosive to
metal surfaces but can be unpleasant on skin. You would have to find
the right concentration.

Also, sodium azide is very powerfull antimicrobial (that can be
combined with tBuOOH and aldehydes) but it is a fairly poisonous on
infestion but not hard to work with (it is not explosive in water
solution and quite safe as solid also). Azide must not be combined
with any heavy metals.

I would need to know the exact application of your disinfectant. If
you plan to use it as a soak bath, simple alcaline solution used for
glass de-greasing (with trace of chlorox bleach will work wonders. You
would prepare about 3% KOH solution with about 2% added K3PO4 (or
K4P2O7), add a small amount of a common dish-washing household
detergent and trace amount of bleach. Since the solution is alcaline,
no aluminum or Ti/Al alloys are allowed but most glass, plastic and
other metal surfaces will get cleaned/disinfected beautifly by a short
soak. Very skin-unfriendly.
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: notsoaps-ga on 03 Oct 2005 20:55 PDT
 
The application of the product is based on the capacity to convert
these disinfecting liquids into an aerosol form.

Since operating conditions and environments vary, it is important that
these checmical compositions be non-toxic to humans and non corrosive
to metals, alloys, plastics and objects present in the environment or
to put it another way, we should be able to convert to aerosol form in
a house without damaging anything other than microbacteria.
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 04 Oct 2005 19:50 PDT
 
For the application you are describing, ozone and chlorine dioxide are
typicaly used. Ozone destroys rubber and anything that is latex-based
and acts as a powerful bleach. Chlorine dioxide has also bleaching
properties and also accelerates aging of rubber but with les
disastrous effect. These are super-highly reactive oxidizer gases that
eat every damned living thing. The idea is that the building / room is
gassed with this highly obnoxious gas which leaves no residue after
being properly ventilated. It has been used to de-contaminate Congress
during Anthrax letter attacs.

If you want to develop something less drastic, you have to expect that
it will be also less efficient. Since you are talking about spraying a
solution, your disinfectant will leave a residue. So the residue has
to be pretty harmless on prolonged exposure (=indoors).

I suggest that you use a mixture of agents. I would mix tert-butyl
hydroperoxide (or benzoyl peroxide) with some acceptable amount of
copper sulfate and also add Triclosan (this is a highly efficient
antibacterial agent that acts against mould and yeast also). Triclosan
is pretty innocuous, it is used in antiseptic soaps.  I would also try
to add glutaraldehyde or glyoxal.

As you pointed out, low-molecular weight aldehydes are irritant to
people but they oxidize / evaporate reasonably fast.
Tert-butylhydroperoxide is also volatile, so it goes away over time.
Dibenzoyl peroxide is not. (10% benzoyl peroxide ointment is used to
treat acne, so it should not be as bad). If you were to spray this
stuff in house, I would recommend to remove all plants and animals and
ventilate for at least one day afterwards. The residue left after the
application (when aldehydes evaporate) should be pretty safe. But you
have to check with regulatory agencies about the permisible levels of
copper and triclosan and the  other agents in a house to live in. You
want to have it in writing because of product liability. Even a remote
possibility of harm to an infant over prolonged period or exacerbation
of symptoms of a asthma pacient can expose you to a litigation
bullshit that would put you out of business.
Subject: Re: Solution to produce a non corrosive non detergent based disinfectant.
From: muham-ga on 09 Oct 2005 01:31 PDT
 
There is one more alternative worth looking into: intense UV light
irradiation. And very easy to do. This will not do anything for
prions, however. And the people operating it would have to wear
protective goggles and cover their skin to avoid eye/skin damage.
(Unless they operate the swich from a  distance.)

Non-corrosive, no residue. Some plastics and fabrics will have a color
change. ("sun bleaching" effect)

Also, titanium white (TiO2 hydrated) has outstanding disinfecting
properties when it gets irradiated with a strong source of visible or
UV light. TiO2 is perfectly non-toxic (it is used as bulk agent to
make drug tablets). The trouble is that titanium white is an insoluble
white pigment. You can make a stable slurry of it - but the
disinfected surface would have to be washed after irradiation (unless
you want them to be white:).

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