This was the subject of a previous Google Answers discussion.  New
information has come to light since then.

The painting is displayed and documented here: 
<http://homepage.mac.com/garyp/lady.html>

The question is:  Identify the maker/artist or workshop/origin of the
piece & its present market value.

---

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 26 Sep 2005 16:09 PDT

I have set to work contacting some leading authorities in this area
and sharing your online photos with them. To date I have been advised
my a most respecable source that due to the lack of an artist
signature it would be difficult, if not impossible to confirm an
origin or arrtibute the art itself to someone in particular. What I
have managed to get is a speculative geographic origin, a speculative
decade of manufacture, and a speculative value.

Is this something you will accept as an official answer? If so, with
my answer will come contact information for the professional source
mentioned whom you may contact yourself and who may very well be able
to tell you more on closer, if not personal physical inspection.

Regards;
tutuzdad-ga

---

Clarification of Question by nunuverbizniz-ga on 26 Sep 2005 23:43 PDT

tutuzdad-

Since there is no signature, my guess is it is the product of a
workshop.  If someone could identify signature aspects of the
workshop's style, and we could get close to decade & area of origin,
with a contact who could possibly tell us what the piece may be worth,
I'd say that would qualify as an answer.

---

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 27 Sep 2005 07:52 PDT

The hallmark on your tile may be identifieable by my source. It would
probably require some close examination. As for "signature aspects",
it would be quite difficult if not impossible to summarize the
signature aspects of ALL workshops. In order to do this one would have
to have a particular workshop in mind. What my source has provided me
with to date is SPECULATION, based on his professional opinion, of
where the TILE may have originated. The fact is that the tile and the
art may not have some from the same place. Having said that, the
origin of the unsigned art itself, which could be attributed to any
number of artists (known or unknown), may prove more elusive. What I
did manage to obtain was a rough estimate of the peice's value based
(at this point) only the following:

-- Visual inspection based on your photos only.

-- The assumption that it is in original, pristine, factory condition

-- The assumption that is is from a particular geographic area

-- The assumption that the artist is (as yet) unknown. 

The initial speculative figure mentioned to me takes ONLY these
assumptions into account, with the understanding that IF the artist is
ever identified, the value may go up slightly if the artist is a
factory worker as opposed to a lesser quality individual painter, and
perhaps substantialy if the artist is proven to be someone whose work
is well known.

I do want to use caution before posting an answer because, as you can
see, assumptions are all that can be made and speculation is all that
can be offered in a visual photographic inspection such as this. I
want to make sure you understand that the information cannot be
absolutely confirmed using this "hands-off" method yet it is
obvioously of paramount importance to both of us that you recieve the
best possible answer for your $50 investment here. As I said, my
source is confirmed as QUITE reputable but even he is limited to what
little information can be gleaned from initernet photos. I want to
avoid disappointment if at all possible which is why I will gladly
provide you with contact information so you can follow up on this in a
more personal manner.

Please give me your thoughts on this as an answer while I wait to see
if more information is forthcoming (perhaps as early as this evening).
If you are agreeable to this I will post an answer complete with these
speculations and the contact information for the source providing the
information.

Regards;
tutuzdad-ga

---

Clarification of Question by nunuverbizniz-ga on 27 Sep 2005 19:11 PDT

tutuzdad-

It sounds like your contact needs to see the original piece.  This can
be arranged, since it is now in my possession.  Is this a person who
can certify the value of the work and make appropriate suggestions as
to how to get it sold for maximum value?  This could include brokering
the sale, which we would actually prefer.

---

Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 28 Sep 2005 17:09 PDT

Since we last spoke I have been shown a digital photo of a recently
auctioned piece that is very similalr to yours and I have read the
catalog information about it. The source (different from the other
source) that provided the photo to me included a catalog description
of the art which may actually be the same TYPE or the same ORIGIN as
yours. The subject of the painting is different from yours, but the
work, quality, medium, framing, etc. is STRIKINGLY similar to yours.
Here I have posted a copy of that photo so you will see the image of
the painting as evidence that the source I am referring to is in fact
professionally familiar with art like yours:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/915691/painting.jpg

In response to your question about the ability of these sources to
appraise your piece or to take it to market, the answer is YES. Both
sources are highly regarded in this genre and both have been quite
internationally successful. Both sources tend to believe that
somehwhere, even it is is quite small, covered by the frame or now
obscured, the piece is probably signed. This of course coould lead to
more revealing information, but if you like I can tell you what little
has been passed on to me thus far about what the peice MIGHT be and
what it MIGHT be worth as an answer. Of course this would come with
complete contact information for both notable sources. In doing so I
will also include some catalog information about the painting I've
shown you in the image to give you an idea about where it came from -
in case the two are paintings in common to a specific era, location,
etc. I will also disclose approximately how much it auctioned for on
the recent market. You may be able to obtain more specific catalog
information about THIS particular piece from the source for
comparision sake, if you are interested. As I mentioned both sources
may also be interested in helping get your piece to market, or may
have some valuable information or suggestion should you decide to go
it alone.

Please let me know if you are agreeable to this and I will officially
close your question with the details.

Best regards;
tutuzdad-ga

Dear nunuverbizniz-ga;

I am going forward and posting what I have so far. At this point, as
you are aware and as we have discussed, verifiable information about
YOUR piece has eluded us but as I mentioned, there are examples of art
LIKE yours for which some provenance and value can, and has been,
established by art professionals like those I consulted.

First, I consulted David Rago, of Rago Arts and Auction Center in
Lambertville, New Jersey.

?David Rago has been a specialist in American and European 20th
Century decorative arts and furnishings for 35 years. A leading dealer
in the field of American Arts and Crafts, he is the founder of the
Rago Arts and Auction Center, one of the country's principal specialty
auction houses. He is the author of over 500 magazine and newspaper
articles and author of five books on the subject including his most
recent two works The Arts and Crafts Collector's Guide for
Peregrine-Smith, and the Official Price Guide to American Arts and
Crafts for Random House. He is the publisher of two nationally
distributed magazines, one focusing on the Arts and Crafts Period
(Style: 1900) and the other on Modernist design (Modernism). Rago
lectures in his specialty at major conferences across the United
States and holds 20 auctions at the Rago Arts and Auction Center
throughout the season.?

PBS.ORG
?DAVIS RAGO?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/l-r/rago.html

Mr. Rago is clearly an undisputed expert in this field and has been a
guest appraiser on the nationally famous ANTIQUES ROADSHOW multiple
times every season for the past eight years.

ANTIQUES ROADSHOW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/index_r.html


Upon examining the photos you provided, Mr. Rago said that the
likelihood that your piece originates from Limoges, France is
substantial ? in fact, he said that it does APPEAR to be a product of
Limoges?however, he goes on, without closer examination is probably
unverifiable. He did say this though:

?Truthfully, the specific factory usually doesn?t matter all that
much, even though some are more highly regarded than others.?

Rago tells me, ?Beyond that, without an artist signature (you did not
mention one), that makes citing one factory over another even more
difficult.  The problems lie in whether or not the piece was done by a
factory artist (usually much better) or a home decorator (usually of
lesser quality).?.

I asked him for his opinion based on what he had been shown and he offered this:

?I?ll assume from here that it is in the same condition it was in when
it left the factory. My variable then are that this is a factory
plaque, assumed by a factory painter, assumed from a Limoges factory,
assumed dating to about 1890, and assumed to be in perfect condition. 
That all said, I think the figure of 20 ? 50k is way too high.  It is
unusually large, and that might warrant a value of between 5 ? 10k. 
But, unless we establish who the artist is, and see that the artist is
highly regarded, I would not estimate it beyond that.?
- DAVID RAGO

In closing Mr. Rago leaves us with this thought, ?As fine as Limoges
work can be, the town did not produce much in the way of superior
plaque ware.?

To try and corroborate the information provided by Mr. Rago, I then
contacted Karen M. Keane, partner and Chief Executive Officer of world
renown, Skinner, Inc., of Boston, Massachusetts. It is important to
know that I did not disclose to Ms. Keane in advance that I had
contacted anyone else, nor did I mention what Mr. Rago had said
earlier. In other words, what she told me was not influenced in any
way by my conversation with Mr. Rago.

Here?s a bio on Karen Keane so you will understand what professional
expertise and authority she holds:

?As CEO of Skinner, Inc., Karen Keane oversees the operation of one of
the leading premier auction houses in the nation. Under her skillful
direction, Skinner has grown from a New England specialty auction
house to a viable player in the international art and antiques
marketplace. Karen was instrumental in Skinner's establishing a
world-class auction gallery in downtown Boston, and the company's
expansion into specialty areas including fine musical instruments,
science and technology, rare books and manuscripts, and Judaica.

Although most recognized for her business acumen, Karen is also a
highly versatile art and antiques specialist with a broad knowledge in
a number of areas of fine and decorative arts. Surrounded by fine art
and antiques at an early age, she brings a lifetime of experience and
passion to her appreciation of American and European furniture and
decorative arts, Asian arts, American and European paintings,
sculpture and more.

Karen holds a master's degree from Boston University, is a regular
contributor to art and antiques publications, symposiums, and Web
sites, including the Boston Globe, Boston Magazine, Art & Auction, New
York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Antiques Magazine. Karen also
lectures and conducts benefit auctions and appraisals for major
fine-art and non-profit institutions nationwide. A strong supporter of
the arts and a vocal advocate for the preservation of antiquities,
Karen is a benefit auctioneer for the AIDS Action Committee,
Massachusetts College of Art, and the Institute of Contemporary Art in
Boston. Karen is a corporate member of the Museum of Fine Arts Boston
and a major supporter of the American Folk Art Museum. She also serves
on the board of overseers for the DeCordova Museum in Lincoln,
Massachusetts.?


Ms. Keane has also been featured as a professional appraiser on
multiple episodes of ANTIQUES ROADSHOW and has been with the program
since its inception, appearing on shows every season for the last 9
years.

ANTIQUES ROADSHOW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/index_k.html


Ms Keane was also generous enough to take time out of her busy
schedule to discuss your piece of art and also to share with me a very
similar piece that her company sold at auction approximately one year
ago. Here is the accompanying catalog description (verbatim), along
with the verified origin and value. While this does not, as I
mentioned in our earlier discussion, absolutely verify the value or
origin of YOUR art, it is indeed strikingly similar in THE OPINION OF
THE CEO OF ONE OF THE MOST HIGHLY REGARDED PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL
FIRMS IN AMERICA. This, I would think, speaks volumes:

?European & Asian Furniture & Decorative 07/17/2004 10:00 AM, Lot No. 753

French Aesthetic Movement Coralene Porcelain Wall Plaque of a
Fashionable Lady, third quarter 19th century, rectangular, the
standing lady in coralene embellished gown and hat, on faux marble
painted floor, against cobalt ground with dense gilt enameled leafy
scrolls, artist signed "E. Pages," framed, plaque sight size 27 1/4 x
15 3/8, frame 38 1/4 x 26 1/4 in.

CONDITION:
Framed, so the edges cannot be seen; however, all appears good. There
are circa 5 very small losses to coralene dress (hard to spot);
otherwise very good.

Estimate:$800-$1,200?


PHOTO COURTESY OF SKINNER, INC: 
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/915691/painting.jpg


The piece mentioned above dates to about 1875-1900 and I actually
found it elsewhere:

P4A.COM Ltd.
http://www.p4a.com/
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/200342.htm

So, the bad news is seems, is that the experts I have consulted both
tentatively agreed that the family?s estimate of between $20K - $60K
is quite optimistic, if not unrealistic under the current
circumstances (unsigned, unverified, unknown origin, etc but assumed
to be in perfect condition) UNLESS a provenance can be established (in
which case the price could go higher ? even potentially perhaps to
about 15k or more).

You are welcome to contact either (*or both) of these generous sources
who were kind enough to help both of us solve this mystery, albeit
only tentatively. I highly recommend you have the piece closely and
personally examined by a professional appraiser who really knows their
profession (and the market trends) inside and out. Both of the
appraisers I consulted for this research easily fall into this
category.

I know we didn?t resolve everything you had hoped to solve, but I felt
that you understood that would be the end result after our
question/clarification exchanges earlier. Having said that I hope you
find that my research exceeds your expectations in terms of what WAS
possible. If you have any questions about my research please post a
clarification request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise, I welcome
your rating and your final comments and I look forward to working with
you again in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to
us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad ? Google Answers Researcher


Special thanks to these companies for providing the necessary information:

DAVID RAGO
Rago Arts and Auction Center
333 North Main Street
Lambertville, NJ 08530
(609) 397-9374 (phone)
(609) 397-9377 (fax)
info@ragoarts.com

RAGO ARTS
http://www.ragoarts.com/


KAREN M. KEANE
Partner, Chief Executive Officer
Skinner, Inc.
63 Park Plaza
Boston, MA 02116
(617) 350-5400
tvappraisers@skinnerinc.com

SKINNER
http://www.skinnerinc.com/



SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINES USED:

Google ://www.google.com




SEARCH TERMS USED:

ART 

PAINTING

LIMOGES

FRENCH 

AESTHETIC MOVEMENT 

CORALENE 

PORCELAIN 

WALL PLAQUE

TILE

ENAMEL

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Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 30 Sep 2005 20:29 PDT

I realized that I inadvertently left out the link to KAREN M. KEANE'S
professional bio. Here it is:

ANTIQUES ROADSHOW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/f-k/keane_karen.html

Regards;
tutuzdad-ga

Although we are disappointed that the piece probably isn't worth what
the family had hoped or conjectured, we believe that you have supplied
all the answers we could have hoped for given the realities of the
situation.  We appreciate your professionalism and find your work most
helpful.

Dear nunuverbizniz-ga ;

I suspect your piece is almost certainly French, probably from
Limoges.  The mark appears to be attributed to the late 19th and early
20th century porcelain company H.A. Balleroy Bros., Limoges, France
who used the marks:

?Balleroy?

?B & Cie?

?BH?

PORZELLAN SERVICE
http://porzellanservice.com/de/informationen/_2003_0-0-L-ort-30/herstellerdatenbank-porzellan.html

You will find a brief history here:

E LIMOGES
http://www.e-limoges.com/makersB.php

You will find a similar mark on the bottom of a hand painted plate shown here:
http://cache.tias.com/stores/habitat/pictures/2391f.jpg

And also in a mark catalog shown here
http://www.e-limoges.com/marksall.php
(4th row far right)

I realize this doesn't answer your question entirely but those are my suspicions.

Good luck;
tutuzdad-ga

Just FYI:
To aid in further research, I also think it would be futile to try and
discover who "H.A. Balleroy" was because I believe the "H.A." stood
for the brother's initials, Henri and Antoine Balleroy.

Hello,
Yes indeed, French.
I did a little searching too, and found sites that suggested this
source*, and then discovered items offered on the subsquent sites that
seem very much to support a relationship to your unusually large
piece, also confirming the comments on the earlier question that these
were usually much smaller (20x20 cm).
*Creil Montereau, B & Cie.  
I saw Balurot & Cie (spelling?) as well as Balleroy as elucidation for 
"B & Cie", but my personal and inexpert opinion is that this only
indicates the porcelain manufacturer, that the painting would have
been done by someone else.  The large slab of fine and flat porcelain
is remarkable in itself, but I know that undecorated porcelain (also
coffee service pieces, etc.) were sold and then decorated outside the
manufacture.

http://www.burchardgalleries.com/auctions/2000/jan2300/jan2300r.htm
 item # 86b

http://www.rouillac.com/catalogues/Catalogue20040124.pdf
page 14, several pieces

http://politicsofreligion.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_politicsofreligion_archive.html
next to last item with stamped mark (despite the unusual topic of the site).

Since the painting  - workshop/artist -  is much more significant than
the porcelain, this only helps close the circle around Limoges.
It looks like a good question for a museum: the Louvre or Musée
d'Orsay in Paris, especially the latter, which specializes in that
period:
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/ORSAY/orsaygb/HTML.NSF/By+Filename/mosimple+index?OpenDocument

It looks like something an interested art student could write a
master's paper on  - to both yours and the student's benefit.

I wish you luck, Myoarin

Tutuzdad,
Congratulations! What an appropriate 5-star comment!