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Subject:
Calculating Natural Gas needed to keep a pool heated.
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: zexion-ga List Price: $25.00 |
Posted:
29 Sep 2005 19:47 PDT
Expires: 29 Oct 2005 19:47 PDT Question ID: 574471 |
I have a pool in my new house which I would like to keep heated to about 80F During weekends and other times when we want to use it. With raising Natural Gas prices I would like to make an excel spreadsheet that will allow me to keep an EXACT TAB (within say $10) of how much it costs me to heat the pool at any given time. The answer I'm looking for should have equations that I can USE IN EXCEL to plug in variables such as outside temperature, average wind speed, current cost of cubic feet of gas, etc. The equations can use BTUs, calories or whatever else to calculate the heat loss etc, but everything in the end must has to be converted to cubic feet of gas needed, so I can then multiply that by the current cost and get a total. Bonus will be given (on top of the "normal" tip) if you produce the spreadsheet yourself and if it includes extras such as "time to pool the heat to X degrees F starting from current water temperature. But this is not required for a valid answer. As long as I can use the equation in excel we are good :) Examples of uses for the proposed spreadsheet: 1) temperature outside is 69F, water temperature is 68F. Its a Thursday and I will want to keep the pool heated until Sunday evening. Equations should calculate the energy needed to get the water temperature to the proposed 80F and keep it there for the next 72 hours taking into consideration: a) heat lost to the air b) heat gained from sun c) heat lost to concrete? (might be minimum, or hard to calculated if I need to know the temp of the concrete) d) much lower temperature at night (60F) than during the hottest time of day 79F e) anything else I'm not aware of that would affect the ultimate total, the COST of all that energy in cubic feet of natural gas. This is a drawing I made of the pool. http://www.fotosrv.com/img/1128045606Pool_size.jpg I should mention there is no cover (and I don?t plan to install one), the pool is surrounded by a 9' feet fence so wind speed on the surface of the pool is rather low. Pool is not shaded at all so it does get hit by the sun in full force on sunny days. I live in zip code 07410 in case you want to use my current temperature for a sample equation. PS: I was not sure how to price this question, it seems to me that someone that knows about thermodynamics should be able to come up with the equations fairly easily, but I could be wrong, if so leave me comments. Please remember, I MUST BE ABLE TO USE THE EQUATIONS IN EXCEL! Answers with equations with weird greek letters that I cant easily transfer to excel wont be accepted :-) | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Calculating Natural Gas needed to keep a pool heated.
From: brix24-ga on 30 Sep 2005 00:09 PDT |
This comment does not give a way to do your calculations, but there is some interesting information at this Dept. of Energy site: http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13180 There they show estimated costs for gas heating of a pool of 1000 square feet, with an 80% efficient gas heater, at 3 different temperatures, with and without a pool cover, and with gas costing $0.50 a therm. You could get a rough estimate of your total cost for a season from this table. You would start with the costs for New York and multiply those costs by 3/4 because your pool has a surface area of 752 square feet. You could adjust for the price of gas by using the factor (current cost of gas per therm/$0.50). Below the table, there is a formula to use if your heater has an efficiency different than 80%. This result just gives you an overall season estimate; it's probably not too good for a month-to-month estimation because wind speed could vary from month to month and the outdoor temperature would certainly vary from month to month. These Dept. of Energy estimates does not take into account variations in the area of the sides that are in contact with the ground. The site don't seem to say how they made their estimates, which could have been helpful in getting the calculations you want. The Dept. of Energy has a separate site that indicates that 78 degrees is probably for competitive swimming; young children and the elderly may need either the 80 or 82 degree temperature. This information is at http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13300 |
Subject:
Re: Calculating Natural Gas needed to keep a pool heated.
From: brix24-ga on 30 Sep 2005 00:14 PDT |
Oops! The formula at the bottom of the table is for cost savings when replacing a gas heater. To correct the Dept. of Energy estimates for your heater, just use the factor (80% / your heater's efficiency) instead. |
Subject:
Re: Calculating Natural Gas needed to keep a pool heated.
From: myoarin-ga on 30 Sep 2005 19:30 PDT |
Zexion, I understand that you are not considering a cover for the pool, but nonetheless, a floating cover with a dark surface would definitely help reduce heating costs and probably reduce cleaning of pollen and leaves. http://www.geothermie.de/egec-geothernet/ghc/21-3art2.pdf Here are two UK sites about solar pool heating that could also be of interest, maybe there are US sellers, but I haven't yet found any: http://www.saferpools.co.uk/solar_panels.htm http://www.btinternet.com/~poolclean/swimming-pool-solar-heating.htm http://www.nbws.com/catalog3.htm http://www.vulcan-hp.com/howitworks.php Okay, here are the risks: http://poolcoversusa.com/floating.html Enough on the subject, Myoarin |
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