Is it correct to say "no matter <noun>" instead of "no matter what <noun> is"?

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 01 Oct 2005 19:59 PDT

Would "no matter the weather" rather than "no matter what the weather
is" be the kind of thing you're asking about?

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Clarification of Question by noamshoresh-ga on 01 Oct 2005 20:41 PDT

yes, precisely

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Clarification of Question by noamshoresh-ga on 02 Oct 2005 12:44 PDT

Hi pink, and thanks for looking into the issue.
I am still a bit confused.
You say "colloquial". This to me implies that there is still something
problematic with this way of putting things. Is there an "unofficial
rule" which is being violated by this construction?
When Oxford says "now often with ellipsis of the verb...Often with
dependent clause or an interrogative pronoun or adverb used
elliptically", should I interpret this as: "omitting the verb (or
interrogative pronoun or adverb) was once considered wrong, but since
many people do it now, it is being 'accepted'"?
In that case I would still be curious about the logic behind the older
rule. Common usage changes a language, but I still want to know if
something of potential value is being lost, or if it's only a matter
of a changing fashion.

In fact, "no matter the weather" sounds pretty bad to me, but as a
non-native English speaker I can't trust my instincts about such
things too much.
Would you use it in a scientific paper?
Thanks,
Noam

In colloquial usage, I see nothing incorrect in the use of "no matter"
in the manner described above. The unabridged Oxford English
Dictionary says this:

"Idiomatic phrases... 
No matter = It is of no consequence or importance; now often with
ellipsis of the verb...Often with dependent clause or an interrogative
pronoun or adverb used elliptically."

I would not use a construction such as "no matter the weather" in a
scientific paper. However, that does not mean that this usage is
necessarily "wrong." It is less than formal. That, in my view, doesn't
make it wrong. There are many phrases which I might use freely in
colloquial speech or casual correspondence, yet which I would not use
in a business letter or a dissertation. It is my opinion that many
things, in language choices and elsewhere, derive their correctness
(or incorrectness) from the context in which they appear. I would not
wear a miniskirt to a Presidential inauguration. That doesn't mean
that a miniskirt is "wrong." It merely means that it is appropriate in
some circumstances, but not in others.

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Naom,
There are usually alternatives for expressions.  With Pink's example:
"no matter what the weather is," one could say or write:  "regardless
of the weather," or in a perhaps different context:  "independent of
the weather."
In a scientific paper, I think "no matter..." in either form sounds a
little too colloquial.

"...but as a non-native English speaker I can't trust my instincts
about such things too much."

You are right not to trust your instincts "too much", but in this
case, I think your are quite right.  In a scientific paper, formal
language suggests precision in expression and in the work, whereas a
slang expression can let the reader infer that the work described also
was not so precise.
Certainly for a non-native speaker, it is better to choose to sound a
little old-fashioned than to risk using a colloquialism where a
native-speaker would not.
But that is is why you asked, and your instinct is correct.  :) 

I have often experienced that foreigners who speak English fluently
will write expressions that are perfectly correct grammatically and
when spoken but seem inapproriate in writing, especially in a more
formal text.
Myoarin

Dear Pink,

Maybe "wrong" is too strong a word. My point is basically that
sometimes (maybe often) there is a reason why a certain way of
speaking (dressing, etc.) is considered colloquial or formal. I would
like to know if in this case, there is some logic behind the norm
(compatible with my own instinct) of not saying "no matter the
weather".

That said, let me make it clear that you have already answered my
question by informing me that this is an accepted, but informal,
phrase, and not a flat grammatical mistake, nor an example of perfect
English.

Best,
Noam