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Q: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation ( No Answer,   5 Comments )
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Subject: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: sylk-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 18:37 PDT
Expires: 21 Sep 2002 18:37 PDT
Question ID: 57628
Where exactly did Martin Buber compare religion and theology like a
dinner and a menu?  I need exact quote and exact source so I can find
page numbers.  Thank you, Sylvia Karasu, M.D.

Clarification of Question by sylk-ga on 26 Aug 2002 06:19 PDT
Ido not want any secondary reference for this Buber quote--of course I
want the exact quote from Buber only. I already had the undocumented
Kushner source.
Sylvia Karasu, M.D.

Request for Question Clarification by chromedome-ga on 08 Sep 2002 14:48 PDT
Hello, Dr. K:

I just wanted to let you know that you've not been forgotten. 
Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any searchable online texts
of Buber's major works in English (likely not German either, or this
would be finished by now).

I have access to most of Buber's oeuvre at the university libraries
here, and with some assistance from the philosophy and theology
departments of the local schools I should be able to find the quote
for you.

I remember, though, that the first time you came to us you had a
publication deadline looming.  Is this the case again, or is the
question's Sept 21 expiration date the only time constraint I should
concern myself with?

Thanks,

-Chromedome

Clarification of Question by sylk-ga on 16 Sep 2002 07:31 PDT
Hi!
  Yes, I thought you guys had forgotten me about the Buber quote.  I
am still interested in the exact source, if possible.  September 21st
would be the last possible time limit--the first go-around for the
publication galleys came and went, but we will be getting the second
(and final) go-around before publication in the next week or so. 
Please hurry.  If not, I'll have to cancel the request from Google. 
Thank you so much.  Good luck!
Sylvia Karasu, M.D. (New York)

Request for Question Clarification by chromedome-ga on 19 Sep 2002 20:28 PDT
Hello, Dr. K:

Well, it's getting down to the wire but I think I've almost got this
beaten...getting what I think is the book we need from one of the
local libraries tomorrow.

Rabbi Kushner was paraphrasing, which was part of the problem.  More
detail to come.

-Chromedome
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
From: blader-ga on 22 Aug 2002 20:42 PDT
 
Dear Dr. Karasu:

Here is the exact quote and a source:

"Theology is talking about God; Religion is experiencing God. It's the
difference between reading a menu and eating a meal."
                 - Martin Buber, quoted by Rabbi Harold Kushner in
"When Bad Things Happen to Good People"

I went to the library to check out this book to find the page number
for you, but I was unable to find this quote, so I am posting this as
a comment. I hope some other researcher has better luck.

Best Regards,
blader-ga
Subject: Re: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
From: rico-ga on 23 Aug 2002 09:54 PDT
 
For what it's worth, as blader notes, I also just did a quick skim
through this very short book, and was unable to find the reference at
all.

rico
Subject: Re: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
From: google_answers-ga on 25 Aug 2002 22:30 PDT
 
The asker probably wants to know the page number in Martin Buber's
book, not in Rabbi Kushner's book. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Subject: Re: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
From: shananigans-ga on 16 Sep 2002 05:28 PDT
 
If you have a look in the bibliography or reference section in the
Kushner book, perhaps it will cite the Buber book?
Subject: Re: Martin Buber and exact source of the quotation
From: chromedome-ga on 21 Sep 2002 17:56 PDT
 
Hello, Dr. Karasu:

I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that I will not be able to
pull out any last-minute heroics on your behalf.  However, I can
provide you with some information that may serve your purpose!  This
is not *quite* the answer to your question, so I am posting it here in
comments in the hope that it will be of use to you.

After researching this question for some time, I began to suspect that
Rabbi Kushner had either paraphrased his quote, or perhaps had
translated it freely from a non-English original.  So last week, in a
flash of inspiration, I searched out Rabbi Kushner and asked him
directly.

In my e-mail, I included a couple of quotes which seemed to
encapsulate the desired idea neatly, though not in the precise words
he'd used in his book.  Rabbi Kushner was good enough to reply the
next day, indicating that he had in fact paraphrased, and that one of
the quotes I'd sent him was the correct one.  I give it here:

"Just as reading a menu cannot satisfy the stomach's hunger, the
conceptual Torah alone cannot satisfy the soul's hunger for direct
spiritual experience. That is why Scriptures tell the soul, "O taste
and
see that the Lord is good" (Ps. 34:8), and "Truly the light is sweet"
(Eccles. 11:7)."

Reading this reply, I thought we were on the verge of a happy
conclusion.  Unfortunately, when I returned to the site that had
yielded this quote, I realized I'd made a mistake.  Although Buber is
quoted in the same portion of the page, this quote was from Abraham
Heschel's book "God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism, (New
York: Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 1955).  There are newer editions,
but you will find the quote on page 123 of the 1955 edition.

Hence my quandary.  While Martin Buber certainly said similar things,
this specific quote is not his.  On the other hand, while Rabbi
Kushner identified this quote as the original he'd worked from, his
memory may have played him false (I would be hesitant to suggest that
he might have misattributed the quote in his book).  Therefore there
is still the possibility of a suitable Buber quote, although it will
not be available in time to serve your purpose.

What do you think?

Perhaps you might quote the Heschel, and then quote Kushner as a more
succinct statement of the same thought?

As I write this your question is about 45 minutes from expiration, so
I don't expect to hear from you before that time.  If you feel you can
use this information, I will post a followup message including full
search strategy.  Voila-ga, who like me stays with interesting
questions for her own satisfaction, was the one who pointed me to the
crucial page.

However frustrating this chase has been, I'm deeply grateful to you
for calling my attention to Martin Buber.  I'm surprised I hadn't seen
any of his work before, as I've read a fair degree of theology,
philosophy, and Jewish literature (for a Gentile layman, at any
rate!).  My wife is demanding that we locate a copy of his "Tales of
the Hasidim" for our own collection.  :)

I hope this is of use to you.  Best regards,

-Chromedome

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