Hi curiogeorges,
There are two problems with using a wine chiller as a refrigerator.
The first is the racking system. Most wine chillers are configured to
cradle wine bottles, not with flat wire shelves to accommodate food.
The second problem is the temperature range. Wines are generally
served at temperatures from 41 to 66 degrees F, and a safe
refrigerator temperature must be 40 degrees F or lower. The following
website contains a chart showing optimal serving temperatures for
various types of wine, and a safe refrigerator temperature of 35
degrees F.
About.com
Wine Serving Temperature Chart
http://wine.about.com/library/bl_temps.htm
While the Colorado State University Extension Service allows that 40
degrees or lower is a safe temperature:
http://www.colostate.edu/Orgs/safefood/NEWSLTR/v5n4s02.html
I took a look at quite a few Wine Cooling systems, both online and in
several catalogs that I have. Most of the mid-priced units available
on the market just do not have a low enough, low temperature setting
necessary to safely store food.
Compact Appliance.com
Franklin 24 Bottle Wine Cooler Cellar:
http://www.compactappliance.com/compactappliance/franchef24bo.html?
has only a temperature range of 48 to 60 degrees F, so would not be
suitable for refrigeration of food. Price $279.
Here is a large and very attractive black, 100 bottle model that
appears to have flat, wooden shelves, but the temperature range is
again, at 45 to 65 degrees F, not low enough to store food safely.
Price $875.
Avanti 100 Bottle Deluxe Wine Refrigerator
BeverageFactory.com
http://www.beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/wine/wc1000.shtml
One high end model that I found did appear to have a low enough
temperature capability (40 degrees F) to safely store food:
4BetterHomes.com
Viking 24 Wine Cooler
http://www.4betterhomes.com/24winecooler.html
adjustable from 40 degrees to the mid-60 degree F range, should be
cool enough for food, but shelves are configured for wine bottles.
Price $1,389.
As wine coolers operate on essentially the same principles as
refrigerators, there would be no difference in the effect of opening
the door. That being said, remember that with a glass-door unit, you
would see what you are going in after before opening the door,
enabling you to retrieve it more quickly, and minimizing the time the
door needs to remain open. So the end result would be that the glass
door unit would remain at a more constant, cool temperature. I have a
small wine cooler in my wine cellar, and it is very easy to spot the
bottle that you want before opening the door. The door is then only
open for the second that it takes to grab the bottle.
If you would like me to search out more high-end units that would have
low enough temperatures to safely store food, or if you should require
any additional clarification of the above, please do not hesitate to
ask.
Good luck with your restaurant project.
Regards,
Beth
Search criteria:
"wine storage" temperature
"wine cooler" refrigerator |
Request for Answer Clarification by
curiogeorges-ga
on
23 Aug 2002 14:43 PDT
Take a look at these units...
http://www.rosehillwinecellars.com/Pages/cabinets_cavavin.htm. I am
looking at the wine fridges because they LOOK BETTER and are more
appealing than most commercial fridges. Also, I have found that they
cost less as you get larger compared to a comparable "regular" fridge.
You response was very informative. See what you can find out about
the CAVAVIN models and any other walk-in or large capacity double-door
models. Thanks!
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
23 Aug 2002 16:18 PDT
Hi curiogeorges,
I did some searching on Cavavin. They are a Quebec Company, and they
do have an English language website:
http://www.cavavin.com/english/
They certainly do seem to be reasonably priced, especially considering
that the prices are quoted in Canadian dollars. They are also very
attractive. Will this be in a kitchen, or somewhere in public view?
Can you tell me which model, in particular, you are interested in? I
have been through their website, and they seem to be a little short on
specs. I could not find a definite mention of the temperature range.
Here is what looks to be a users manual for one of the models:
It gives instructions and some wiring information, which may not be
terribly helpful to you, but it also makes mention of 41 degrees as
being the desired serving temperature for white wine, which would seem
to indicate that it goes at least that low. I noticed by your other
question that your restaurant will be located in Florida, and that 41
degrees would meet the requirement for food storage temperature. Also
notice the diagram that shows what look like flat, wire shelves.
http://www.cavavin.com/english/informations/instruction/hautsgamme/
Here is some warranty information that you may want to consider:
“Refrigeration, electrical and electronic devices bear a warranty of 1
years starting from the purchase date including labor. Adding 4 years
on the compressor, labor not included. If so, compressor must be
returned to Cavavin in St-Hubert, free of charge, for replacement. All
other parts such as cabinet, metal, wood, plastic, hardware and
shelves bear a warranty of three months labor included. If its
impossible to repair on sight, the unit must de returned, free of
charge, to CAVAVIN in St-Hubert. The final decision is up to the
manufacturer.”
http://www.cavavin.com/english/informations/garantie/
I will send them an email and ask about the temperature range and the
shelving, but as this is Friday night, I don’t expect to hear anything
until Monday. If you could let me know what model you are interested
in, it would be helpful. If there is anything else you would like me
to inquire about, I will include it in my email.
I will also see what else I can find online from other companies, once
I know your size, style and budget requirements. Any additional
information you can give me will help.
Beth
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curiogeorges-ga
on
23 Aug 2002 17:44 PDT
You're good. I think that I might like to use you exclusively in the
future! The models I am interested in particularly are: Prefab room
6x6 double rows
Model:c-6x6-d AND/OR 190 bottles Model:AR-28-24-66. Thank you very
much.
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
23 Aug 2002 19:18 PDT
Thank you for the kind words, curiogeorges,
I have unearthed some additional technical and temperature range
information on the Cavavin coolers:
“The CAVAVIN cellars are built according to highly precise,
CSA-approved standards. We use high quality components which are
assembled in a way that provides optimum performance and easy access
to the various parts for servicing purposes. All models are delivered
fully assembled, except for pre-built wine rooms.
“Our cellars are equipped with a cooling unit which combines a gravity
device with a ventilation system. The climate control cycle starts
with a cooling period during which the temperature inside the cellar
is brought down to a predetermined level. During this cooling period,
condensation appears on the plate located inside the cabinet. Once the
desired temperature is reached, the system cycles off and the
evaporation of the condensate begins. Excess humidity is eliminated
through the evaporation drain located at the back and the cycle starts
again. Note that all our cellars come with a digital thermostat,
specially made to maintain the right temperature for the wine. The
temperature range is 4 oC to 17 oC. The ideal conservation temperature
for wines (champagnes, whites, reds and portos) is 12 oC”.
http://www.cavavin.com/english/art/technologie/
4 degrees C is 39.2 degrees F, so this would meet Florida
requirements.
It also appears that you can purchase directly from them, and they
will provide a representative to assist you, if desired.
I sent the following email to the company:
“I am a consultant representing a client who is opening a restaurant
in Florida. He is interested in your wine cooling units, and is
considering using them for food storage. Specifically, he is
interested in two models: C-6x6-D, the Prefab room unit, and
AR-28-24-66, the 190 bottle unit.
“Florida law requires that food be stored at 41 degrees F (5 degrees
C). According to the technical specifications presented on your
website, the lower limit of your temperature range is 4 degrees C
(39.2 degrees F). Can you please verify this for me?
“The other consideration is the shelving configuration. Can you please
provide information on the types of shelves contained in the two
units. Are they racked to cradle bottles, or are the shelves flat,
such as could accommodate food items? Are they wire?
“I would also appreciate receiving information regarding shipping, and
any pricing considerations should he purchase one or both units. I am
assuming that standard conversion rates on the day of purchase would
apply.
“Any additional information that you can provide regarding use of your
cooling units for restaurant purposes, especially for food storage,
would be greatly appreciated.”
I will kep you posted when I have a reply.
Beth
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
24 Aug 2002 06:46 PDT
I found some other large capacity wine refrigerators, but in all
cases, the temperature range was wrong. I include them here so that
you can eliminate them from any further searching you may do:
Winemate: 48-62 degrees F
Marvel: 42-64 degrees F
Avanti 49-65 degrees F
Haier: 45-60 degrees F
Here is a good sized display unit that I did find with the proper
temperature range:
Summit 70 Bottle
Temperature range 38-55 degrees F
Price $895
http://www.beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/wine/swc1075.shtml
Here’s a website that you may want to take a look at. While their site
is a little amateurish (twirling “Sale” tags and flashing words all
over the place!), they seem to have an amazing variety of
coolers/chillers/refrigerators of all sizes and types. They advertise
factory pricing and it appears that they will customize for you, so it
may be worth your time to browse through their website and/or give
them a call.
West Side Wine Cellars
http://www.westsidewinecellars.com/
P.O. Box 5248
Beverly Hills, CA 90209
310.475.5991
310.886.3304(fax)
1.800.876.5906
email: westside-group@mindspring.com
Beth
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
26 Aug 2002 13:45 PDT
Hi curiogeorges,
I have not yet received a reply from Cavavin to the email that I sent
them Friday evening, so I contacted them again and reiterated the
request for information.
In the meantime, here is their contact information, should you wish to
call or fax them:
Cavavin
4575, Sir Wilfrid Laurier
Saint-Hubert, QC
J3Y 3X8
Tél.: (450) 676-6447
Fax.: (450) 676-5022
e-mail: info@cavavin.com
http://www.cavavin.com/english/contactez/
I will keep you posted.
Beth
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
27 Aug 2002 07:44 PDT
Hi curiogeorges,
Here is the information that I received this morning from Cavavin:
Thank you for your interest in our products.
Our products are for wines not for food. It's true
that the thermostat goes at 5degree celcius but
in a restaurant since the doors are opened often
the temperature will be hard to stay at 5 all the time. Our
cellar are usually maintain at 12 degree celcius for wine
conservation.
The shelving are made to store wine bottles, food maybe put on it but
it depends what format. The shelving are wire.
Usually shipping are set-up by buyer. So, if you have an account with
a
transport
company that comes in Montreal you may ask for a quotation. In
another,
matter if
you consider buying we can find a transport company for you and give
you the
price.
All are prices are in canadian dollars so yes the conversation rate
will
apply.
Regards
NATHALIE FORTIER
PRÉSIDENTE
CAVAVIN (2000) INC.
TEL: 450-676-6447
FAX: 450-676-5022
COURRIEL: nfortier@cavavin.com
I am not sure what she means when she says that:
"It's true that the thermostat goes at 5degree celcius but in a
restaurant since the doors are opened often the temperature will be
hard to stay at 5 all the time."
This does not differ from the situation you would find with a
refrigerator, unless the refrigerator is kept at an even lower
temperature.
In any case, Ms. Fortier provides her individual email address, should
you wish to get directly back in contact with her.
I hope that you have found this information useful, and I wish you
great good luck in your restaurant venture.
Regards,
Beth
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
28 Aug 2002 11:03 PDT
Okay, curiogeorges, you've got me hooked on this question!
Today I sent off the following email to Ms. Fortier
Dear Ms. Fortier,
Thank you very much for your reply to my enquiry. My client is still
very interested in your products for his restaurant. Could you please
clarify something for me? When you say that:
Our products are for wines not for food. It's true
that the thermostat goes at 5degree celcius but
in a restaurant since the doors are opened often
the temperature will be hard to stay at 5 all the time.
Do you mean that a regular refrigerator can be set at a colder
temperture to compensate for opening the door? Would this typically be
the case, that a refrigerator or wine cooler in a restaurant will be
set to a temperature colder than that required to compensate for
opening the door? Also, your website specifies 4 degrees C as the
lowest setting, but your email mentions 5 degrees C. Can you please
confirm that the cooler can, indeed be set to 4 degrees C?
I greatly appreciate your continued information.
If I receive a reply, I will let you know.It would be nice to be able
to use these units. Thanks for the kind words and the very nice
rating.
Beth
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curiogeorges-ga
on
28 Aug 2002 13:41 PDT
With regard to the walk in cooler, I like the style. Not may are made
that way. Can they ship just the housing (without the refrigeration
unit on it) so that I can put a "standard" walk-in refrigeration
cooler?
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curiogeorges-ga
on
28 Aug 2002 13:43 PDT
By the way, the unit will be used for : bottled beverages (sodas,
etc), wines, beers, cheeses (whole rounds) and some salads. FYI.
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
28 Aug 2002 18:59 PDT
I did some further searching on cheese and salad ingredients, but the
regulations are complex, and a definitive list of foods that are
considered to be “Potentially Hazardous Foods” does not appear to
exist. I did find the following information:
On December 22, 1999, the International Dairy Foods Association (IDFA)
http://www.idfa.org/news/releases/1999/foodcode.htm
issued a press release entitled “FDA Grants Exemption on Dating for
Cheese”. In it they say:
"We are pleased that FDA recognized that these cheeses do not support
the growth of such pathogens as Listeria monocytogenes during the
aging process and subsequent storage process."
This would seem to indicate that cheese may not be “potentially
hazardous food” as defined by the new regulations mandating the lower
(41 degrees F) food storage temperatures in restaurants. However, this
is not definitive.
Here is their contact information, should you wish to pursue this
further:
1250 H Street, NW, Suite 900
Washington, DC 20005
Main Telephone: (202) 737-4332
Fax: (202) 331-7820 (all staff)
Website: www.idfa.org
I found the following information on “Evaluation and Definition of
Potentially Hazardous Food”:
“Foods that have been historically recognized as not being PHF are now
in question, particularly produce items such as lettuce and tomatoes.”
(Pg. 10)
Source:
Food & Drug Administration
Evaluation and Definition of Potentially Hazardous Foods
December 31, 2001
http://www.foodprotect.org/pdf/hazard_foods/front.pdf.
This is a PDF file, and requires Adobe Acrobat
So I think we are still looking at a mandated temperture of 41 degrees
F, but an exhaustive search would be need to be undertaken to be
absolutely sure. You would not want to run afoul of the FDA or Florida
regulations.
I sent an additional email to Ms. Fortier with your question regarding
sale of the housing only, minus the cooling unit. I will pass on any
information I receive from her (if she is not heartily sick of being
bombarded by my emails!).
Beth
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
29 Aug 2002 07:47 PDT
Hi curiogeorges,
Ms. Fortier’s has graciously responded to my last two emails.
My question:
“Do you mean that a regular refrigerator can be set at a colder
temperature to compensate for opening the door? Would this typically
bet he case, that a refrigerator or wine cooler in a restaurant will
be set to a temperature colder than that required to compensate for
opening the door? Also, your website specifies 4 degrees C as the
lowest setting, but your email mentions 5 degrees C. Can you please
confirm that the cooler can, indeed be set to 4 degrees C?”
Her response:
“OUR THERMOSTAT GOES DOWN TO 5 DEGREE NOW BECAUSE IT'S RARE THAT WE
PUT WINE UNDER 7 DEGREE CELCIUS. A REFRIGERATOR IS LOWER THEN THAT,
YOU MAY SET IT AT 2 DEGREE CELCIUS BUT IF YOU OPEN THE DOOR OFTEN THE
COMPRESSOR WILL START MORE FREQUENTLY.”
And to your question regarding purchasing just the housing:
“Yes, we can sell the prefab room without the cooling unit. The price
would be 6090 -1290 = 4800. Note that the prefab room comes with
bottle racks inside for 960 bottles. Since it is for food we can also
sell without bottle racks. The price would then be another 1080 less
which means 3720$.”
I will send her an email thanking her for all her help. Here is her
contact information again, should you wish to pursue this further:
NATHALIE FORTIER
PRÉSIDENTE
CAVAVIN (2000) INC.
TEL: 450-676-6447
FAX: 450-676-5022
COURRIEL: nfortier@cavavin.com
Best of luck,
Beth
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curiogeorges-ga
on
29 Aug 2002 08:00 PDT
Thanks so much Beth. This has been so very helpful. We'll call it
quits on this one, and Ill think about the ramifications. How can I
use you in the future for questions? Can I specify you as the
researcher? Thanks.
|
Clarification of Answer by
bethc-ga
on
29 Aug 2002 18:47 PDT
Thanks, curiogeorges. You may request a specific researcher by
including a name in the subject line of your question and/or in the
text. If I am able, I would be happy to help you in the future.
Regards,
Beth
|
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