Where can I obtain electrical circuit plans for a 1928 Gurney manual
elevator, and specifically, for the elevator's controller. Gurney went
bankrupt in 1937. The company's senior engineers were hired by
Westinghouse when it went out of business. The following info
identifies the model. Serial Nr. 4297. Machine type M15VTE. Inter-pole
DC motor Nr. 1576, size D60 - 26 HP. Controller type 42 C. These
diagrams would be useful in restoring the system. |
Request for Question Clarification by
welte-ga
on
23 Oct 2005 05:29 PDT
Hi persistent-ga, Quick question... Are there patent numbers on the
elevator (or motor)? This may help track down the schematics.
-welte-ga
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
23 Oct 2005 05:59 PDT
persistent-ga,
Please have a look at this wiring image for a Gurney-patented elevator
controller ca 1925:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/image-1689583-1.html
[single image of wiring diagram -- may be hard to view]
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1689583.pdf
[full patent in pdf format -- should be OK to view]
It's hard to relate it to the specific machine model you cited, but it
certainly seems like it could be the one you're looking for.
Let me know what you think.
pafalafa-ga
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 07:34 PDT
The wiring diagram of the controller is number BB2359. (label not
clear: could be 882359) However, the building has 2 Gurney elevators
(passenger & freight). Their controllers are similar, but different.
Yet the tags on both of them are identical. Patent numbers cannot be
found.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 07:40 PDT
persistent-ga,
From your most recent comment, it wasn't clear to me whether you had
been able to view the wiring diagrams at the link I posted:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1689583.pdf
If you have any trouble pulling up this image, let me know. But if
you can view it, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts as to whether it
is a close match (or not) to the controller(s) in your elevators.
Thanks,
pafalafa-ga
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 07:53 PDT
Reply to PAFALAFA-GA: The links show interesting wiring diagrams for
early automated floor levelers. This elevator does not have such
equipment. (The operator controls floor leveling by running the last
few inches before each stop at very low speed.) The diagrams are
great, but not pertinent to the equipment to be restored. p.s. I can
view both links, but only print the pdf version.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 12:33 PDT
Thanks for getting back to me, and sorry for missing the distinction
between the leveller and the controller.
Try this one instead:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-3/279856/gurneyelevatorpatent.pdf
Patented by Mr. Gurney himself! Does that look it might be one of the
ones you need?
paf
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 18:44 PDT
Further clarification for PALAFALAFA-GA: It looks interesting but
probably not what I need. The patent is dated 1907. Assume there were
innovations before the controller was manufactured in 1928.
Controllers are semi-custom according to (1) number of floor stops (2)
HP of motor (load capacity of cab) etc. I need the diagrams for MY
building's elevator. The info on the tag: machine type, motor size,
and wiring diagram number should identify the drawings for this
particular installation. The patent may be helpful. I will pass it
along to our engineer but presume that it will not inform him if the
controller has been modified from original specs. You are on a good
track. I am grateful, but we are not there yet.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
24 Oct 2005 19:10 PDT
persistent-ga,
Thanks for the feedback.
You're not the only one who is persistent around here, but apart from
the patents themselves, there is little in the way of online sources
of historical information for something like this.
The only place I can imagine to turn to would be either (1) the
Gurney/Westinghouse corporate archives, if such a thing exists, or (2)
the archives of whatever company/building houses the actual
elevator(s) in question.
Can you shed any light on (2)? Where are these Gurney's, and what
company (or other entity) was it that had them originally installed?
Any additional info might be a big help at this point.
Thanks,
paf
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
25 Oct 2005 14:02 PDT
Additional clarification for PALAFALAFA-GA: The Gurney in question is
in a Manhattan co-op apartment building. The building has had several
managing agents since it was built. Because of this, all very old
records are long lost. It was constructed by Tishman realty, now a
huge firm whose employees would be puzzled by my inquiry. The NY City
buildings department ought to have some architectural drawings for the
building. We are trying that route, but the bureaucracy is a nightmare
and unlikely to have ever had the diagrams in any case. I believe that
Westinghouse sold its elevator division to Schindler years ago, but I
am not sure of this. Schindler is a Swiss based multi-national co. The
curator of the Elevator Museum is friendly, but no luck there. The
Library of congress does not have them either. Related Questions: Who
used to maintain Gurney's in the 1930's and 1940's. Would such
contractors have saved old drawings, service manuals with diagrams,
etc.? Sign me: persistent but still stymied.
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Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
25 Oct 2005 17:32 PDT
I'll keep looking, but I have my doubts about what can be turned up.
But I have to ask...where in Manhattan?
I used to live on Hudson St. in a building that dated back to the
20's, I think, but it was a walk-up. Still, curiousity has got the
better of me.
ex-new-yorker paf
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
25 Oct 2005 19:28 PDT
for PALAFALAFA-GA: To satisfy your curiosity. Building is very near
the Metropolitan Museum. Hope you can help. Also hope someone else is
reading this and intrigued enough to pitch in. The elevator is a
classic--not up to landmark status, but still a reminder of Old New
York that is well worth preserving. I think the challenge here is to
search the internet for a lead that points to an offline source-- the
illusive archive that stores the diagrams on paper, gathering dust.
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
26 Oct 2005 09:59 PDT
Further clarification: The building was constructed in 1928-1929. The
elevator is the original one installed. It has never had a
self-leveling feature. Operators level the cab floor with landing
floors by "feel for the controls". It has an elegant cherry paneled
cab. But we believe that mechanically, it is a basic system with no
extra-cost frills.
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Clarification of Question by
persistent-ga
on
04 Nov 2005 10:41 PST
I have learned that it used to be standard practice for a building to
keep wiring diagrams of its elevator, and the elevator's controller,
in the superintendent's office. Mechanics would refer to them when
troubleshooting. Another building that has this same model elevator,
and still has the electrical diagrams that came with it, could be a
source. Obviously, such drawings can easily be copied. We could pay
for permission to make the copies.
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