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Subject:
How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
Category: Science > Chemistry Asked by: wishiknew-ga List Price: $25.00 |
Posted:
14 Oct 2005 13:34 PDT
Expires: 13 Nov 2005 12:34 PST Question ID: 580350 |
1) How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base? Tris (or Trizma Base) is a weak base. H2O + (HOCH2)3CNH2 < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + OH-, (pKa = 8.1), pKb = 5.9, Kb = 1.3 x10-6 Boric acid is a weak acid. B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4-, pKa = 9.2, Ka = 6.3 x10-10 A common electrolyte used for electrophoresis is [1x] TBE which is 89 mM Tris, 89 mM Boric acid, and 2.5 mM EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetic) which can be ignored. Taken individualy, [(HOCH2)3CNH2] = (89 x10-3 - X), [(HOCH2)3CNH3+] = X, [OH-] = X Kb = 1.3 x10-6 = ([(HOCH2)3CNH3+] x [OH-]) / [(HOCH2)3CNH2] = X2 / (89 x10-3 - X), X = 3.4 x10-4 pOH = 3.5, pH = 10.5 and, [B(OH)3] = (89 x10-3 - Y), [H+] = Y, [B(OH)4-] = Y Ka = 6.3 x10-10 = ([H+] x [B(OH)4-]) / [B(OH)3] = Y2 / (89 x10-3 - Y), Y = 7.5 x10-6 pH = 5.1 but when you add them together, B(OH)3 + (HOCH2)3CNH2 + 2H2O < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + B(OH)4-+ H+ + OH- How do you calculate the pH (references say that the pH is 8.3)? 2) TBE is commonly called a buffer because I presume it can maintain it?s pH as [H+] is increased at the anode and [OH-] is increased at the cathode during electrophoresis due to the electrolysis of water. 4e- + 4H2O => 2H2 + 4OH-, cathode 2H2O => O2 + 4H+ + 4e-, anode If [H+] and [OH-] are increased by 1mM how does the pH change? |
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Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: hfshaw-ga on 14 Oct 2005 16:47 PDT |
For simplicity, I'll write "tris0" and "tris+" to denote the neutral and protonated versions of tris. Quantities in square brackets indicate concentrations, as usual. This problems has 6 unknowns: [tris0], [tris+], [B(OH)3], [B(OH)4-], [OH-] and [H+] You have, however, 6 equations relating these 6 unknowns: [tris+]*[OH-]/[tris0] = 10^-5.9 [B(OH)4-]*[H+]/[B(OH)3] = 10^-9.2 [B(OH)] + [B(OH)4-] = 89mM [tris0] + [tris+] = 89mM [H+]*[OH-] = 10^-14 [B(OH)4-] + [OH-] = [H+] + [tris+] The only one of these equations that might not be obvious to you is the last. This equation is a statement of electrical neutrality in the solution -- the sum of the concentrations of the negatively charged species must equal the sum of the concentrations of the positively charged species. Given these six equations, you can solve for each of the unknowns, including the concentration of H+. The pH, of course, is the negative logarithm of [H+]. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: brix24-ga on 16 Oct 2005 11:49 PDT |
It gets somewhat complicated (for me, at least) to solve those 6 simultaneous equations. (They are not all of the simple form, aX + bY + .... = c.) Since you have a weak base and a weak acid, you can initially remove the H+ and OH- concentrations from consideration. (The H+ and OH- concentrations are much smaller than the concentrations of the weak acid and weak base and their conjugates.) You can initially work without the H+ and OH- by eliminating them from your "added" equation: B(OH)3 + (HOCH2)3CNH2 + 2H2O < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + B(OH)4-+ H+ + OH- whose equilibrium constant is (1.3 x 10-6) * (6.3 x 10-10). Since [H+] [OH-] = 1 x 10-14, you can use this to convert your "added" equation to B(OH)3 + (HOCH2)3CNH2 + H2O < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + B(OH)4- whose equilibrium constant is (1.3 x 10-6) * (6.3 x 10-10) / (1 x 10-14). You can then let x concentration/amount of boric acid and of tris that react and get: x * x / {(.089 - x) *(.089 - x)} = (1.3 x 10-6) * (6.3 x 10-10) / (1 x 10-14) Solving this quadratic equation will give you the values for boric acid and borate; you can then use the equation for boric acid dissociation to get the H+ concentration and the pH. I didn't get a pH of 8.3, but the values I get satisfy the 6 equations shown, except that the two halves of equation 6 differ by 4.55 x 10-6 (which is off by only 2 parts in 10,000 and within the two significant figure error for the equilibrium constants). If you want to post your answer, I'll let you know if we have the same answer. ---- re: part 2: I presume the solutions at the two electrodes are not allowed to mix with each other. For each electrode, then, let the H+ or OH- react with the tris or the boric acid and use the result as your starting point. Your starting equation will look something like this: (x + .001) * x /(.088-x) * (.089 -x) = K(eq) |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: wishiknew-ga on 28 Oct 2005 09:28 PDT |
Thanks for the comment hfshaw. It hadn?t occurred to me to examine this question as just a math problem, and the last equation that balances the charge is clever. Using substitution, I was left with a quartic equation, but after a good struggle I gave up trying to solve for the roots. Instead, I asked a friend to solve it numerically and these are the results. [tris+] = 0.019570697 = 20mM [OH-] = 4.46618 x10^-6 [tris0] = 0.069429303 = 69mM [B(OH)4-] = 0.019566233 = 20mM [H+] = 2.23905 10^-9 [B(OH)3] = 0.069433767 = 69mM Therefore pH = 8.7. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: wishiknew-ga on 28 Oct 2005 09:35 PDT |
Thanks for you comment brix24. After giving up trying to solve the 6 equations by substitution I started on your suggestion. Starting with the added equation B(OH)3 + (HOCH2)3CNH2 + 2H2O < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + B(OH)4-+ H+ + OH- Keq = Kb x Ka At first I was uncertain of your claim that the H+ and OH- could be dropped because I thought that [(HOCH2)3CNH3+] = [OH-] and [B(OH)4-] = [H+]. But then I realized the role of Kw which would have H+ and OH- react to form H20 until [H+][OH-] = 10^-14 in which case they would be present in such comparatively low concentrations that they could be ignored. Is this right? Then, as you showed, the equation can be simplified as B(OH)3 + (HOCH2)3CNH2 + 2H2O < = > (HOCH2)3CNH3+ + B(OH)4- Keq = Kb x Ka / Kw Where [B(OH)3] = (.089-X), [(HOCH2)3CNH2] = (.089-X), [(HOCH2)3CNH3+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = X X^2 / (.089-X)^2 = (1.3 x 10^-6) x (6.3 x 10^-10) / 10^-14, X / (.089-X) = SQRT(.0819), X = .020 Therefore [B(OH)3] = (.089-.020) = .069, [B(OH)4-] = .020 I wasn?t obvious to me what to do next, so your guidance was very useful. Plugging this back into the equation for the dissociation of boric acid gives. Ka = [B(OH)4-] x [H+] / [B(OH)3], 6.3 x10^-10 = .020 x [H+] / .069, [H+] = 2.2 x10^-9, pH = 8.7 So, how about that, the same answer as the first method. What do references (Sigma catalog and others) know about pH (unless I?ve got Ka and Kb wrong)! I?m still working on the the part of my question that asked about the buffering ability of TBE. When I?m done I?ll post my answer. I?d be very thankful if you could comment on it, thanks for your consideration. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: brix24-ga on 29 Oct 2005 19:03 PDT |
Yes, I also got pH 8.7 (or 8.66) and 69 mM and 20 mM. Your comment that the H+ and OH- are in such low concentration that they can be ignored in determining the pH is correct. Perhaps it would have been better had I said that the H+ and OH- concentrations are determined by the weak acids and bases left after the Tris and the boric acid react. The goal was first to get an equation without H+ and OH- and use that to determine the equilibrium contrations of Tris, Tris+, boric acid, and borate -- then to get the H+ or OH- concentraion from either the Tris/Tris+ or boric acid/borate equilibrium (which you did). For the second part, the initial H+ or OH- concentraion is no longer so negligible, so there is one preliminary step: reduce the H+ or OH- concentration to near zero by assuming they react either with the Tris or boric acid. Then the problem can be solved by the same method as in part one, except that instead of starting with 89 mM Tris and 89 mM boric acid, you are starting with 88 mM Tris, 1 mM Tris+, and 89 mM boric acid (for 1 mM H+ present initially). This works because starting either with (1mM H+, 89 mM Tris, and 89 mM boric acid) or (88 mM Tris, 1 mM Tris+, and 89 mM boric acid) will result in reaching the same final equilibria - it's just that it's easier to solve starting with the second combination. Re the 8.3 -- 8.7 pH difference, I know that pH can depend on temperature and ionic strength, but I don't know if that is enough here to explain this particular difference. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: wishiknew-ga on 07 Nov 2005 12:07 PST |
Thank you once again brix24 for your comments. Your suggestion that the H+ and OH- concentrations are determined by the weak acids and bases left after the Tris and the boric acid react really helped me understand what I think is happening. This is how I reasoned things through. 1) The strongest acid present, B(OH)3, reacts with the strongest base present, tris B(OH)3 + tris + H2O < = > tris+ + B(OH)4- Use the initial concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = (.089-X), [tris] = (.089-X), [tris+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = X then substitute into Keq = [tris+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3][tris] = KbKa/Kw = 8.19x10^-2 to find that [B(OH)3] = .069, [tris] = .069, [tris+] = .020, [B(OH)4-] = .020 2) Then, the strongest acid that remains, B(OH)3, reacts with the next strongest base present, H2O. B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = (.069-X), [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = (.020+X) then substitute into Ka = [H+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3] = 6.3x10^-10 to find that [B(OH)3] ~ .069, [B(OH)4-] ~ .020, [H+] = 2.17x10^-9, pH = 8.66 which is same result I got when I let [B(OH)3] = .069, [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = .020 and ?plugged into? Ka without thinking about what was happening, although it serves as a valid approximation since you would assume X would be small enough that it could be ignored in the .069-X and 0.20+X terms. I liked this reasoning because I can apply it when determining what the pH at the anode (where H+ is generated) is when [H+] is increased by 1 mM. 1) First, the strongest acid present, H+, reacts with the strongest base present, tris H+ + tris = > tris+ Use the initial concentrations and let [H+] = (.001-X), [tris] = (.089-X), [tris+] = X then knowing that H+ is a strong acid and Keq is very large [H+] ~ 0, [tris] = (.088), [tris+] = .001 2) Then, the strongest acid that remains, B(OH)3, (since H+ is depleted), reacts with the strongest base present, tris. B(OH)3 + tris + H2O < = > tris+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = (.089-X), [tris] = (.088-X), [tris+] = (.001+X), [B(OH)4-] = X then substitute into Keq = [tris+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3][tris] = KbKa/Kw = 8.19x10^-2 to find that [B(OH)3] = .070, [tris] = .069, [tris+] = .020, [B(OH)4-] = .019 3) Then, the strongest acid that remains, B(OH)3, reacts with the next strongest base present, H2O. B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = (.070-X), [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = (.019+X) then substitute into Ka = [H+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3] = 6.3x10^-10 to find that [B(OH)3] ~ .070, [B(OH)4-] ~ .019, [H+] = 2.32x10^-9, pH = 8.63 As you can see, I?ve followed just what you suggested doing. If you?d like to comment on my reasoning behind this approach I?d be grateful. I couldn?t have thought this problem through without your guidance, thanks. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: wishiknew-ga on 07 Nov 2005 12:12 PST |
Not to get carried away, but if you wanted to know how much H+ could be generated at the anode to bring about a 50% increase in [H+], you reverse the above steps. Initially, [H+] = 2.17x10^-9, pH = 8.66. A 50% increase is, [H+] = 3.26x10^-9, pH = 8.49. From step (3) B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentration and let [B(OH)3] = (.089-Y-3.26x10^-9), [H+] = 3.26x10^-9, [B(OH)4-] = (Y+3.26x10^-9) then substitute into Ka = [H+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3] = 6.3x10^-10 to find that [B(OH)3] ~ .075, [B(OH)4-] ~ .014 From step (2) B(OH)3 + tris + H2O < = > tris+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = .075, [tris] = (.075-Z), [tris+] = (Z+.014), [B(OH)4-] = .014 then substitute into Keq = [tris+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3][tris] = KbKa/Kw = 8.19x10^-2 to find that [tris] = .062, [tris+] = .027 From step (1) H+ + tris = > tris+ Use the new concentrations and let [H+] = X, [tris] = .062, [tris+] = .027 then knowing that H+ is a strong acid and Keq is very large [H+] = .027 So, it would take the generation of [H+] = 27mM to lower the pH to 8.49. |
Subject:
Re: How do you calculate pH when a weak acid is added to a weak base?
From: brix24-ga on 09 Nov 2005 14:18 PST |
I have been impressed by your obvious desire to understand, and now I am impressed by your creativity in posing your additional, not run-of-the-mill problem and solving it. Re answer agreement: For part two of your original problem, I also get pH 8.63, and, starting with the 75 mM boric acid, 14 mM borate numbers, I also get 27 mM for the additional [H+] needed. However, my method and reasoning differs somewhat from yours, so I'll have to explain the difference. This comment will be somewhat lengthy; it discusses some issues left mostly implicit before and explains how my concept differs from what I think yours is. Let me begin with a previous statement of mine: "Your comment that the H+ and OH- are in such low concentration that they can be ignored in determining the pH is correct." Taken out of context, this is subject to an interpretation I did not intend, so I will bring in some more information here. * All the acid-base reactions reach equilibrium together, that is, you can?t have two reactions with a common reactant with one being in equilibrium and the other not. If that were the case, the reaction not at equilibrium would continue towards equilibrium and change the concentration of the common reactant, changing the reaction at equilibrium to one not at equilibrium. (This will be become more relevant when getting to how I solved the most recent problems.) * Water is such a weak acid and base that the hydrolysis reaction functions primarily to keep the [H+] and [OH-] concentrations adjusted so that [H+][OH-] = 10^-14. When a weak acid or base is added, they are responsible for the production of [H+] or [OH-, with the hydrolysis of water essentially serving to adjust either (complementary) [OH-] or [H+] so that [H+][OH-] is 10-14. * In the simple case of addition of a weak acid to water, both the acid dissociation and the hydrolysis reaction reach equilibrium together. For boric acid, boric acid < = > H+ + borate and H2O < = > H+ + OH- both reactions reach equilibrium quickly. To solve for the H+ concentration, we determine the dissociation of the boric acid, with x being the concentration that dissociates to reach equilibrium. Since the hydrolysis of water produces so little [H+], we can ignore its contribution, but it serves to lower the [OH-] to keep the 10^-14 value. *If we now consider the reactions occurring in the Tris-boric acid buffer, the following reactions all reach equilibrium together: Tris + H2O < = > Tris+ + OH- boric acid < = > H+ + borate H2O < = > H+ + OH- as well as the equations derived from these equations, that is, Tris + boric acid < = > Tris+ + borate Which is the sum of the first two equations minus the third equation. All four of these reactions must all reach equilibrium together, so that the one equilibrium concentration of Tris satisfies all four reactions simultaneously - since all the reactions take place in the same solution and face the same concentraion of Tris. The same holds true for the equilibrium concentration of any other reactant. Since these reactions must all reach equilibrium together, if we determine the concentration of one reactant, say, Tris, for one reaction (in the face of any other reactions using Tris), we have the equilibrium Tris concentration for all the reactions. This concept will the basis for the difference in our approaches for solving the most recent problems. * In my previous comments about how to get an equilibrium concentration of Tris, I focused on the following: We have both a weak acid (boric acid) and a weak base (Tris) and possibly their conjugates; the weak acid and the weak base will react with one another and are the primary determinants of the H+ concentraion. The approach was to find a reaction (the combined one, as it turned out) that reflected the reaction between these Tris and boric acid and that didn't have other terms, such as H+ and OH-, that would complicate solving for equilibrium concentraions. (Implicit was the concept that the final H+ concentration was determined by the concentrations of the conjugate acid / conjuate base couples left after the weak acid and the weak base react.) The combined equation was ideal for our purposes since it contained Tris, boric acid, and their conjugates, but not any H+ or OH-. With the combined equation, then, we could use x to represent the concentration of Tris and boric acid that react with one another. Solving for the Tris and boric acid concentrations then gives the equilibrium concentrations for them in all the reactions. Once we have the concentrations of Tris, boric acid, and their conjugates from the combined equation, we can solve for the H+ concentration. These concentrations are equilibrium concentrations and can simply be substituted in any of the appropriate remaining equilibrium reactions to calculate the equilibrium concentrations of H+ or OH-. There is no need for a "minus x" in this calculation for H+ since equilibrium has been achieved for all the equations and there is no further change in concentrations. (One can use either the boric acid equation or, successively, the Tris equation and the water hydrolysis equation to get the H+ concentration.) * Going back to your most recent comment, then, I would modify your method, which you list as: "3) Then, the strongest acid that remains, B(OH)3, reacts with the next strongest base present, H2O. B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = (.070-X), [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = (.019+X)? Instead of using [B(OH)3] = (.070-X), [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = (.019+X) I use [B(OH)3] = .070, [H+] = X, [B(OH)4-] = .019 Mathematically, either method gives the same result since the x here is so small. However, the combined equation used to determine the .070 M boric acid is really just a combination of the boric acid equation and the other two equations. All the reactions are at equilibrium, and the boric acid concentration will be the same for all of them, that is, it is not necessary to use "minus x" (There is an alternative, more cumbersome way to get the H+ without using the boric acid equation. You can also the Tris reaction to determine the OH- concentration and then the hydrolysis constant for water to get the H+ concentration from the OH- concentration - again, without having to use a "minus x.") * Switching, now, to your very creative new problem, I would not use the "minus 3.26x10^-9" or "minus z (even though the value of z is not negligible here). In solving for the H+ concentration, you wrote "B(OH)3 + H2O < = > H+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentration and let [B(OH)3] = (.089-Y-3.26x10^-9), [H+] = 3.26x10^-9, [B(OH)4-] = (Y+3.26x10^-9) then substitute into Ka = [H+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3] = 6.3x10^-10" I would use [B(OH)3] = .089-Y, [H+] = 3.26x10^-9, [B(OH)4-] = Y instead of [B(OH)3] = (.089-Y-3.26x10^-9), [H+] = 3.26x10^-9, [B(OH)4-] = (Y+3.26x10^-9) at this point since the final ( aka equilibrium) concentration of H+ is given. A certain amount of H+ was added - some reacting with the bases present and some staying as H+ to reach double the final H+ concentration. The equilibrium equation is [borate] * 3.26x10^-9 = Ka * [boric acid] The other constraint on the borate and boric acid concentrations is that their sum must be .089, so one concentration must be .089 - y and the other y. Solving this gives you the equilibrium boric acid and borate concentrations (.075 and .014); you can then substitute these into the combined equation. though I used the ?z? unknown somewhat differently than you di. You have "B(OH)3 + tris + H2O < = > tris+ + B(OH)4- Use the new concentrations and let [B(OH)3] = .075, [tris] = (.075-Z), [tris+] = (Z+.014), [B(OH)4-] = .014 then substitute into Keq = [tris+][B(OH)4-]/[B(OH)3][tris] = KbKa/Kw = 8.19x10^-2 to find that [tris] = .062, [tris+] = .027" All the reactions should already be at equilibrium since you added H+ until the final H+ concentration doubles - with some of the added H+ reacting with borate, some with Tris, and the rest staying to raise the H+ concentration, If any reaction were not at equilibrium, then it would either generate or use up H+, but this is contrary to saying we added H+ until the final H+ doubled. Instead of [B(OH)3] = .075, [tris] = (.075-Z), [tris+] = (Z+.014), [B(OH)4-] = .014 I used [B(OH)3] = .075, [tris] = .089 - z, [tris+] = z, [B(OH)4-] = .014 reasoning that the boric acid and borate concentrations (as you did) are at equilibrium and that the sum of the Tris and Tris+ concentrations must be .089. There is really no difference in whether this last equation is solved by your method or by the method that I used. The methods are equivalent, but with different starting points. My equation is clearly different in appearance than yours; why, then, do we get the same answer? There are two ways to look at this: Chemically: you are looking for equilibrium starting from one point of view (.075 M Tris and .014 M Tris+) and I am looking for equilibrium starting from .089 M Tris. In either case, their is only one set of equilibrium concentrations for Tris and Tris+ that will satisfy this equation. Mathematically: the (.075 - z), (0.14 + z) and the (0.089 - z), (0 + z) are transforms (?) of one another: You can change one equation into the other by substituting (Q + .014) for z in your equation and get the form of my equation. If you?ve read this far, congratulations again on your enthusiasm for understanding, on your obvious hard work, and on your creativity. |
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