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Q: Speed limit and no point statues ( Answered,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Speed limit and no point statues
Category: Relationships and Society > Law
Asked by: speedingnj-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 17 Oct 2005 08:47 PDT
Expires: 16 Nov 2005 07:47 PST
Question ID: 581280
I got a ticket on an extension of Route 18 in NJ; THe extension is new
construction and the speed limit signs are covered with garbage bags.
The ticket is for 61 in a 50.
What is the speed limit on a highway if no speed limit sign is there ?
if the answer to this allows the officer to be right then:
What statue do I use to reduce my ticket to a no point ticket?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Speed limit and no point statues
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 17 Oct 2005 09:54 PDT
 
Dear speedingnj-ga;

Thank you for allowing me to answer your interesting question.

In New Jersey the speed limits are ?absolute?. In other words, unlike
some speed limits in other states where certain conditions statutorily
provide for the modification of speed limits on various motorways
depending on the activities and conditions that exist, speed limits in
all instances and on all roadways are dictated by the New Jersey
Department of Transportation and remain in effect continuously. Here
are the laws regarding speed limits on Route 18:

NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Traffic Regulations
Orders of the Commissioner of Transportation
Speed Limits for State Roads
Route 18
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/traffic_orders/speed/rt18.shtm

In answer to your follow-up question, there is no single ?statute you
can use? to ?get no point ticket?. There are some options however:

One such option appears to be a reduction of points assessed against
you by pursuing a defensive driving program on your own. These usually
require you to sit through a boring lecture and slide show/film on the
necessity and importance of obeying the state traffic laws. New Jersey
offers this opportunity to drivers to help reduce the number of points
accrued in situations such as yours. In some cases states even happily
dismiss cases if a driver agrees to attend one of these courses. The
bonus result of that of course would be a dismissed ticket AND a
reduction of any previously existing points. Whether or not your
state?s court will afford this option to you is something you?d need
to consult your local court clerk or district attorney about. Follow
the links on this page for more information about reducing traffic
points.

NEW JERSEY MOTOR VEHICLE COMMISSION
Point Deductions
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/cit_violations/d_vp_pntded.html
DRIVER PROGRAM
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/cit_driver_programs/d_driver_programs_defensive.html
DRIVER IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/cit_driver_programs/d_driver_programs.html

To find out exactly how many points might be assessed against you for
this specific violation, here is a convenient point system chart:

NEW JERSEY MOTOR VEHICLE COMMISSION
Point System
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/cit_violations/d_vp_pnf.html#NJSA

Alternatively, under the New Jersey Court Rules, a New Jersey Attorney
can negotiate with the Municipal Court Prosecutor to attempt to reduce
points. If you cannot work a defensive driving course into your
schedule, there are some law firms that advertise that they will
accompany you to court and negotiate for a no-point ticket for you.
This option may or may not exceed the amount of the original ticket,
but the trade-off is that you won't have the points on your record if
the attorney succeeds in getting the no-point ticket for you. This may
be a viable option to you. Here is one such law firm:

Kenneth Vercammen & Associates, P.C.
http://www.njlaws.com/traffic_representation_and_no_points.htm

Good luck.

I hope you find that my answer exceeds your expectations. If you have
any questions about my research please post a clarification request
prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating and your
final comments and I look forward to working with you again in the
near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher



INFORMATION SOURCES

Defined above


SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINE USED:

Google ://www.google.com


SEARCH TERMS USED:

NEW JERSEY

SPEED LIMIT

ROUTE 10

DRIVING 

POINTS

REDUCTION

DEFENSIVE DRIVING

Request for Answer Clarification by speedingnj-ga on 17 Oct 2005 20:00 PDT
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/traffic_orders/speed/rt18.shtm
In this link the last speed limit is 55 for the highway (from Rt 27 to
River road).  The road has been extended from there and the speed
limit signs are covered with garbage bags.  Hence, it is safe to
assume that the speed limit continues ? or atleast it is the last
known speed limit.  Thus would that invalidate the ticket e.g. the
ticket is for 61 in a 50. if the implied speed limit is 55 .... I get
out on a technicality ?

Also, I know that there are 0 pont technicalities, they can let you
off on, e.g. plea bargain to a 0 point statue.  I need a pointer to
those.
From the Prosecuter's prespective, you pay the fine to the town, and
court costs ... but dont affect your insurance ... Thanks.

Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 18 Oct 2005 08:06 PDT
According to the State of New Jersey posted and unposted speed limits
are recognized thusly:

?What is the speed limit in NJ?

New Jersey law sets top speed limits for any given road, street,
highway, or freeway. The speed limit, unless otherwise posted, is 25
mph in school zones, business, or residential districts; 35 mph in
certain low density business and residential districts; 50 mph on all
other roadways; 55 mph on certain state highways (as posted) and all
interstates; and 65 mph on certain state highways (as posted).?

STATE OF NEW JERSEY
http://www.state.nj.us/faqs/driving.html

It seems then, since the signs were bagged, that the speed limit on
the roadway in question is unposted, and understood to be ?50 mph on
all other roadways?. It cannot be argued (in my opinion) that the
speed limit was understood to be 65 mph simply because it is a state
highway since the regulations state ?as posted? and the speed limit
clearly was not posted (i.e intentionally obscured with bags by the
DOT).

As for ?pointers? we can?t give you a ?prosecutors perspective?
because we are no New Jersey lawyers. We are merely researchers who
find and distribute published information. Having been in law
enforcement myself for more than 20 years I can offer you this from my
own experiences in court:

Perhaps you could argue that the speed limit is unnecessarily low
considering the lack of construction going on at the time.

Perhaps you might argue that the bagging of speed limit signs was not
adequately published so alter commuters to the recent changes.

Perhaps you might argue that the posted speed limit was obscured but
no amended speed limit signs or devices were posted. (?Ignorance of
the law is no excuse? is an old court adage but it might just work for
you).

Perhaps you might consider asking the prosecutor for a break based on
your stellar driving record (they sometimes sympathize and cooperate
with defendants).

Perhaps you might plead with the prosecutor that you are financially
strapped and give him your word that you will not violate the law
again for one year in exchange for a dismissal (in legal jargon this
is called a ?nol prosequi? and gives the prosecution the option of
bringing the charges against you for up to one year if you violate the
terms of a plea bargain.)

Perhaps you could suggest that other traffic was traveling at the same
speed you were and it would have been unsafe for you to reduce your
speed and pose an impediment and thus a potential hazard. (This is an
old argument and the fact that you might have been singled out of a
group of travelers is not a legal defense but the common sense of the
argument still works in court occasionally)

Good luck
Tutuzdad-ga
Comments  
Subject: Re: Speed limit and no point statues
From: philnj-ga on 17 Oct 2005 11:55 PDT
 
If I remember my High School driver's ed class correctly, there are
"Default" speed limits in New Jersey where no speed limit is posted. 
I think it is 35 (or 25?) mph in populated areas and 50 mph in
unpopulated areas.  how those are defined and how they apply are
another matter.
Subject: Re: Speed limit and no point statues
From: research_help-ga on 18 Oct 2005 06:59 PDT
 
Well, we are in PA so this may not apply exactly... My wife recently
got a ticket for going 75 in a 55.  She did not argue with the officer
and was polite.  She went to court and spoke to the officer before the
trial.  She told him that she had not received a ticket since she was
a teenager and she was concerned about losing our "no ticket" discount
that we get on our insurance.  He agreed to reduce the charge to a no
point violation of "disobeying a traffic control device." So, your
best answer may be to go to court and politely ask the officer for
help. The officer gets his overtime for going to court so he is happy,
the judge imposes a fine so he is happy, you get no points so you are
happy. It's a win-win-win situation if the officer is agreeable.

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