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Subject:
Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
Category: Relationships and Society > Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Asked by: vigilare-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
24 Aug 2002 14:32 PDT
Expires: 23 Sep 2002 14:32 PDT Question ID: 58174 |
In Paul Monette's book "Last Watch of the Night", as he is walking through a graveyard, he searches the gravestones for "stray quotation[s] from Hamlet or Pooh". The suggestion is that this is a signal that the people buried thare are gay, and that there is some link between gays and Winnie the Pooh. Searching Google provides enough denial and tasteless jokes about it to prove to me that there is something to the statement that gays have an affinity towards Pooh. Can you find something that actually discusses this affinity seriously and with some intelligent insight? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: pinkfreud-ga on 24 Aug 2002 19:42 PDT |
This does seem like the sort of subject that is worth some serious attention. Many decades ago, I remember reading an article in "After Dark" magazine that examined the affinity that many gay men have for Judy Garland. As an icon, Winnie the Pooh is certainly poles apart from Judy; it is interesting that such dissimilar "mascots" should be shared by gay culture. I wonder whether Pooh's special status in the gay community might stem from this passage found in "The House at Pooh Corner": "When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it." While I'm sure it was not A.A. Milne's intent to sum up the experience of "coming out," this quote could have striking relevance in that context. |
Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: vigilare-ga on 25 Aug 2002 13:50 PDT |
Yes, there may be something to that. Even if the image wasn't intentional, it still is a powerful one for gays. For example, a lot of gays also relate to Harry Potter in a similar way. There are several aspects of the story that resound with being gay and coming out: - having a shameful secret that is known to the family that no one else can know. - not naming this shameful secret, and actively discouraging discussion of it. - being afraid of other people (the neighbours) discovering this secret - the secret being a natural, uncontrollable part of Harry, something he was born with and had no choice in - being persecuted by his family because of it (being called "abnormal") - having it run in the family - discovering it one day in a surprise event - having it all come together and move into an environment where it is supportive and entirely natural - discovering that many other people are the same way, they also hide themselves from society to various extents I'm referring to "magic", but you could easily substitute "being gay or lesbian" for all of the above. Anyway, back to Pooh... I notice that most of the jokes on the net revolve around sexual acts and various forms of domination. This is the thing that leads me to think that the opposite symbolism is occurring with these characters. That is, the the spoofing is a misdirection to hide the underlying reality. Assuming there's something to the "misdirection" statement, several aspects of the Pooh mythos seem particularly attractive to gay men: - the almost complete exclusion of female characters - the sole female character (Kanga) is a kind, motherly figure on the periphery - the male friendships are kind, caring, emotionally deep, tolerant, supportive, and inclusive - the characters are without malice (though they may lower themselves to petty bickering from time to time, e.g.: Rabbit) - many of the characters, although presumably simple, run deep in their thoughts (sort of Yogi Berra-like characters). I find the discussion of the Pooh mythos in "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Te of Piglet" quite interesting, because it uncovers some of the attributes of the various characters. Some other random thoughts and non-scientific observations: - I notice a lot of gay guys relate to Tigger's "It's all about me" mentality. Actually, Disney released a shirt a couple of years ago that said exactly that and a lot of gay guys bought it. Maybe there is something to the impulsiveness and self-centeredness of Tigger. - Many younger gays seem to like Piglet (innocence and nervousness about proving oneself) or Eeyore (amusing gloominess?). - The characters Rabbit, Owl, and Roo don't seem to be terribly popular. (Though they are not unpopular. There seems to be more indifference attached to them.) - Pooh remains a bit of an enigma for me. When gay guys say they like "Pooh" they seem more to be referring to the characters or stories as a whole, as opposed to the Pooh character. I haven't been able to figure out him yet. - I haven't figured out how Christopher Robin fits into this yet. Some more random thoughts on him: - special deep friendship between Christopher Robin and Pooh - hand holding of two male friends (though Piglet and Pooh do this, too.) |
Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: carla1-ga on 25 Aug 2002 19:54 PDT |
Could be partly that the books show a little boy being gentle, kind, affectionate and all of those other "feminine" characteristics, and, rather than being reviled and despised for it, he's loved and cherished by the whole world .... And, of course, the books are hilariously "camp" in their faux niavete (much as I love the "Pooh" stories, I'm always reminded of Dorothy Parker's "Tonstant Weader fwowed up"). |
Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: journalist-ga on 25 Aug 2002 22:29 PDT |
Touche' pinkfreud - I believe you have found it. |
Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: stuartwoozle-ga on 26 Aug 2002 14:10 PDT |
Hmmm. My nickname is Woozle - hence my userid on here. I'm not saying a thing... |
Subject:
Re: Analysis of Gay's Affinity with Pooh
From: netizenkane-ga on 05 Dec 2002 11:37 PST |
I found this discussion fascinating for several reasons. Although I'm a 31-year-old gay man, I've never noticed a real interest in Pooh in this community, although (and this is where it gets interesting) my parents referred to me by the nickname of "Pooh" since I was very young. Later, I used it as a sobriquet for one boyfriend and am currently now with a partner who has been nicknamed "Tigger" by friends. I guess you'd ask, then, how I haven't noticed the affinity -- but honestly, I thought it was simply a component of gays' overall fascination with Disney. Some thoughts: In general, I think popular childhood characters resonate with adult gays for many reasons. For one, there is the obvious connection with youth, which has been historically prized in the gay culture. Clinging to these characters mentally is, in my opinion, a way of retarding their discard from our lives and thus prolonging childhood. Additionally, these characters are rich with symbolic importance. Many of Disney's most popular characters are based on archetypal fairy tales that date back for centuries -- and thus resonate with enduring themes, characters, and situations. What little girl in a sparkling play-gown (and women on their wedding day) don't feel a little like Cinderella? What middle-aged-but-juvenile playboy hasn't been labeled Peter Pan? Part of the reasons these stories and characters endure is their near-universal applicability to individuals in our own lives. Finally, it's important to note that many gay men lack the outlet of "re-participating" in the enjoyment of these characters through child-rearing. Straight parents get all the exposure to childhood characters they desire (via the three-year-old's incessant playing of the "Snow White" DVD, the Halloween costumes, the storybooks, etc.) Gay men, lacking this outlet, perhaps more activally look for it themselves. So, what about Pooh and his compatriots echoes themes often seen in gay culture? I think vigilare addressed many cogent themes in his post (the exclusion of female characters, I think, being a very powerful one). However, I also think it's important to note that these stories are relatively rare in their lack of stereotypical sex roles and thinly-veiled sexual undertones. If we think of Cinderella, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, Little Red Riding Hood, and other popular childhood stories, we see a good deal of male-female pairing up. Pooh and gang, which possess less a conflict-driven story structure and are more akin to a mythology in that way, don't typically "go in" for that. That's my $0.02! |
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