I'm wondering how much money forensic psychiatrists make anually.  A
bit of background...most psychiatrists see patients either in
hospitals or in private practice and bill the patients, their
insurance companies or HMOs for their services.  However, as I
understand it, forensic psychiatrists operate a bit more like lawyers
and bill their "clients" or the courts for forensic assessments that
they do.  These assessments include things like criminal
responsibility assessments, fitness to stand trial assessments and
workplace violence risk assessments.  I think that the income from
these types of assessments outweighs the income from patient care by a
substantial margin.  My question is: how much money do forensic
psychiatrists make, including this income from non-clinical
assessments?  I recognize that there is a range of incomes so a range
in the answer would be useful.  I'm also curious about how much they
bill per hour for different services and how much of their time
typically is taken up by patient care work and by non paient care
forensic assessments.  If possible, I'd like to know this answer for
Canada and the US.

It may be helpful to know that the forensic psychiatry association in
the US in the American Association of Psychiatry and the Law (AAPL,
pronouced "apple").  Their website is http://www.aapl.org.  I've
hunted around for this information, but have been unable to find it. 
I'm not even sure if it's available publicly.

Thanks.

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Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 24 Oct 2005 08:38 PDT

With the exception of "billing for different services" (which we will
probably never find as an average) I have managed to find some
reasonable salary "expectations" in varioous situational examples.
Please examine the comments below and let me know if this is what you
are looking for in lieu of individual billing (which likley differs
from one clinical specialist to another).

tutuzdad-ga

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Clarification of Question by dangermoose-ga on 24 Oct 2005 11:18 PDT

The information regarding the salary of forensic psychiatry fellows is
not relevant because a forensic psychiatry fellowship is one step on
the way to becoming a forensic psychiatrist.  However, my question is
regarding forensic psychiatrists.

The schools in the USA data is not relevant to my questions because
that pertains to psychiatrists, not forensic psychiatrists.

The data from the William Reid psychiatry website is the most germane
to my questions.  However, my initial question regarding the yearly
salary of forensic psychiatrists is still unanswered.  I realize that
they can charge $150 to $700 per hour for their services, but how many
hours per year are "billable" at this rate and of the hours that they
spend doing other things, at what rate are they remunerated.  In other
words (to restate my initial question), how much money do forensic
psychiatrists make anually, all things considered?

Thanks.

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Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 24 Oct 2005 11:20 PDT

Hopefully someone who has better insight into the industry than I do
will be able to give you better information.

tutuzdad-ga

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Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 24 Oct 2005 11:43 PDT

dangermoose-ga,


A forensic psychiatrist working for local government in California can
expect to earn up to $200,000 a year:


http://agency.governmentjobs.com/sonoma/default.cfm?action=viewclassspec&ClassSpecID=7203&Agency=423&ViewOnly=Yes


a hefty salary by government standards, and a reflection of the likely
larger earnings to be expected in the private sector.

I might be able to come up with one or two private sector examples,
but I am not finding very much details on this topic.

Would a few real-word, private-sector examples meet your needs?

Let me know.

pafalafa-ga

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Clarification of Question by dangermoose-ga on 24 Oct 2005 13:55 PDT

pafalafa-ga,
Yes, a few real world private sector examples would definitely meet my
needs.  I'm interested in forensic psychiatrists who either spend all
of their time doing private forensic psychiatry work, or split their
time between clinical psychiatry work with patients and private
forensic psychiatry work.  Thanks.

Dear dangermoose-ga;

According to Emory University School of Medicine, a Forensic
Psychiatry Fellowship earns about $53,000 per year.

EMORY UNIVERSITY
http://www.psychiatry.emory.edu/fellowshipspsychiatryfellowship.htm

Obviously one who sub-specializes in the type of Forensic Psychiatry
you are referring to would earn substantially more. SCHOOLS IN THE USA
? CAREER SEARCH lists the average salary of a Forensic Psychiatrist as
$163,144 with an unlimited maximum ceiling as a potential expectation.

SCHOOLS IN THE USA ? CAREER SEARCH
http://www.schoolsintheusa.com/careerprofiles_details.cfm?CarID=531

Along the lines of extraneous earnings, this source might prove more detailed:

?How much do forensic professionals make?

Private fees in my psychiatric subspecialty range from about $150/hour
to about $700/hour. The latter is for one or two people who are
internationally known for extremely specialized stuff. Most well
trained and experienced forensic psychiatrists charge between $250 and
$500/hour. Sometimes we discount our fees.

Forensic psychologists usually charge a bit less. The most expensive I
know charge around $300-350/hour. The least expensive (but
well-qualified) ones I know charge around $150/hour.

Note that private fees are virtually always by the hour. It is
unethical to charge a "contingency fee" (like some lawyers), in which
one's pay depends on the outcome of the case. Ethical experts never
charge a big flat rate just for their "testimony" itself; that's just
on TV (or maybe experts whom I might consider unethical).

Professionals who are employed by someone else, such as a government
agency, usually get a salary, so the hourly fee concept is not
relevant (unless the employer is being paid by the hour for the
employee-professional's time). Most such people do "in-house" forensic
work (such as being employed by a jail or prison to do inmate
counseling, or by a large prosecutor's office to evaluate defendants).
Salaried positions vary from about $35-40,000/year for some
entry-level masters-degreed professionals to $100-180,000/year for
senior forensic psychiatrists. Senior forensic psychologists (PhD) may
make over $100,000 in salaried positions. Don't forget that salaried
positions usually include health and retirement benefits, often
involve less hassle than private practice, may be more stable than
private practice, and have no office "overhead."

William H. Reid, M.D., M.P.H., Forensic Psychiatry Consultant
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY
http://www.reidpsychiatry.com/reidfaq.html

Please let me know if this sufficiently answers your question and
provides the information you are seeking under the circumstances?

Tutuzdad-ga