My wife had 5 DUI's (classified as a habitual vialator), the last of
which was nearly 5 years ago.  We met in AA about 4 years ago as she
was starting to recover.  I have never had a ticket or a DUI and I
qualify for pretty good car insurance rates, and I have had my
insurance with GEICO for 10 years.  Since it has been nearly 5 years
since the last DUI she can soon take a defensive driving course and
pay a $400 fine and apply for her license.    I have two autos:'94
Ford Crown Victoria, an '04 Toyota Tundra and a Coleman pop-up camper
on the GEICO policy.  When I update my policy by phone they always ask
me if I have recently had to take a "defensive driving course", which
I think is code language for: have you had a DUI?  I have always
listed her as someone who doesn't drive, and they seemed satisfied
with that answer.

My question is this: I'm concerned what negative monetary effect this
will have on my premiums, and need to know what to expect before I put
her on my GEICO policy as a driver. Will my premiums go up? How much,
and for how long? Would GEICO be likely to cancel my policy?   Would I
be better off taking my older auto off the GEICO policy and getting
her a policy somewhere else?

---

Clarification of Question by mobikobe-ga on 31 Oct 2005 17:11 PST

We live in Georgia, all the violations also happened in Georgia.

Hi mobikobe,

1. Will my premiums go up? How much, and for how long? 

Yes, definitely. Ofcourse there are alot of variables (e.g., premiums
can vary quite a bit from one town to another), but it's possible your
premiums could double or even worse. Compare the Price Comparison
Examples at the following link. There are three examples of families
with various situations and one single fellow with a DUI.  It will
give you a good idea of how your premiums could be effected by your
wife's history.

Price Comparisons - page 13
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/ins/docs/consumer/2085.pdf

Last Resorts
"If your driving record is a disaster, if you've never had auto
insurance before, or if you're male, single and under 25, you'll be an
untouchable to most insurers. Sure, they'll write you a policy.
That'll be $5,000 please. Fortunately, there are several companies set
up exclusively to handle substandard risks. And if all else fails, you
can usually sign up with your state's assigned risk plan (check with
your state's department of insurance for numbers).
In all such cases you'll pay much more than you would with a clean
record. But you can work your way to a better rate in as little as
three years. You just need to clean up your act."
http://www.smartmoney.com/insurance/auto/index.cfm?story=finding

"As you can see insurance rate increases are the highest costs
associated with DUI/DWI. Major carriers who do keep drunk drivers on
their policies usually drop or assign them to 'high risk' carriers and
raise their rates dramatically, sometimes as much as 400%. If you own
more than one car than costs go up even more."
http://www.dui.com/insurance/

"...since 1946 the state has offered the California Automobile
Assigned Risk Plan (CAARP) to high-risk drivers who can't get
insurance anywhere else."
"CAARP rates range from around $840 to $2,400 annually, with the
option for payment by installments."
http://www.dui.com/drunk_driving_research/insurance_tips.html

2. Would GEICO be likely to cancel my policy?  

No, I don't think so, because they do insure nonstandard (high-risk) drivers.  

3. Would I be better off taking my older auto off the GEICO policy and
getting her a policy somewhere else?

This is a good question and I think it could only be answered by a
professional with all of your personal details at hand. The thing is,
car insurance is just that, insurance for your car (and not the
driver).  It is actually possible for premiums to rise just with
having a high risk driver in the household even though that person may
not be listed as a driver on the policy.  However, that won't be the
case with your wife because in order to drive, she will have to file a
Form SR-22 which certifies that she has auto insurance.  If I were
you, I would seriously consider hiring a consultant for advise. For
me, I would say that putting the older car in her name and opening up
her own policy to keep your policy clean would be the way to go,
except for the fact that it's possible that she could effect your
policy anyway by just being in your household (because it would be
possible for her to drive your car). It's a tough call and there is
only one way to find out what would be the best thing to do and that
would be to start asking for quotes or to hire a broker to do it for
you. Either way, I'm afraid you're just going to have to bite the
bullet, pay the higher premiums, and wait for her rates to be
gradually reduced as she proves herself.

"Preferred: This category is for drivers considered the best risks,
which usually means the safest drivers. Preferred drivers have
maintained clean driving records for the past three years and pay the
lowest rates.
Standard: This category is for drivers considered moderate risks.
Rates for standard drivers are higher than those for preferred
drivers. People in this category usually drive ?family? cars and have
reasonably clean driving records.
Nonstandard: This category is for drivers considered high risk. They
pay the highest rates for insurance. This category may include drivers
under 25, drivers with little experience, drivers with histories of
tickets or accidents, drivers with poor premium- payment records, and
drivers with convictions for driving recklessly or under the influence
of alcohol or other drugs."
Driving record
"Maintain a good driving record. Your premiums are directly related to
your driving record."
Why is it harder to get insurance if drivers in my household have bad
driving records?
"Many companies won?t insure you if you live with a relative who has a
poor driving record. If your teenager has a poor driving record, you
may have trouble getting a preferred rate because he or she is defined
as an ?insured? under your policy. Some companies will exclude this
person by name from the insurance policy. Many companies won?t insure
anyone in the family unless every driver in the household meets their
requirements."
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/ins/docs/consumer/2085.pdf

Oregon Insurance Division: Automobile Insurance
Why does the driving record of members of my household affect my rates
if they do not drive my car?
"Auto policies are heavily regulated by the state you live in and most
situations require insurance to pay no matter who's driving your car.
If the insurance company only had to pay for losses involving the
listed drivers then they would only be concerned with the driving
records of the listed drivers because all others would not be
covered."
How will an alcohol-related ticket (DUI or DWI) affect my premium?
"If you already have a policy in effect, it is possible that nothing
will happen for some time. Your current insurance company may not find
out that you have the ticket. However, sometimes insurance companies
randomly check driving records. Many companies would non-renew your
policy at expiration in such an instance. If that were to happen,
there are several non-standard, commonly referred to as high-risk,
companies that would take you. It would not be unusual for your
premium to triple with a non-standard company. If you are currently
getting your insurance from a preferred company, you should sit tight
and not make any waves. Pay your bills on time and do not let it
cancel. Also, do not change companies, as any company writing a new
policy will order your driving record and find out about the ticket."
http://www.dui.com/insurance/auto_insurance_faq.html

Here are some more websites with general information and information
about Form SR-22 (Financial Responsibility Filing), please click on
the links for full details. In order for your wife to drive again, an
insurance company will have to an SR-22 to certify that she has enough
insurance to cover future claims.

 SR-22 (Financial Responsibility Filing)
"A requirement by a state regulatory entity (usually the state Motor
Vehicle Department) for an insurance company to certify on a driver's
behalf that the driver has the ability to pay future claims up to the
state required limit. The certification is done by means of a form
called an SR-22."
http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/auto-insurance-glossary-n-w.html 

Oregon SR-22
"An SR-22 is a certificate from an Oregon-licensed insurance company
certifying that you have purchased liability insurance that meets the
minimum required limits of coverage (ORS 806.070 and 806.075).
The SR-22 provides proof to DMV that you are insured. If you cancel
your insurance or the insurance company cancels your policy before
your suspension period is over, the company must notify DMV that the
certificate is canceled. You will need to get a new SR-22 certificate
on file with DMV within 30 days or your license will be suspended.
If you are asked to prove ?future financial responsibility? by having
an SR-22 on file with DMV, a copy of your insurance binder or your
insurance card is not considered acceptable proof. Also, your
insurance must cover all vehicles operated by you and/or registered in
your name."
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/driverid/sr22.shtml

SR22 High Risk Insurance in Arizona DUI Law
http://www.duiarizona.com/insurance.htm

How to Insure a Risky Driver
"Say you get a speeding ticket on your way to work. A week later you
rear-end a Jaguar. This star-crossed month ends with a notice from
your insurer that you're being dropped. What to do? At all costs avoid
the assigned risk pool - a state-run system that forces all carriers
to share the burden of insuring the riskiest drivers. Premiums in
assigned risk pools run 50% higher on average than with private
insurers, according to Robert Hunter, director of insurance for the
Consumer Federation of America. A better option: Turn to an
independent agent who can help you find a private carrier specializing
in high-risk drivers. (In some states, such as New Jersey, there's no
nonstandard market; the assigned risk pool is your only choice if
standard insurers won't take you.)
Ideally, you'll find an insurance carrier that specializes in your own
particular brand of risk. For example, Progressive is known for being
lenient with first-time DUI offenders in Ohio. "If someone comes in
here with just one DUI on his record," says Tom Schneider, an
insurance agent based near Columbus, "there's no question where I'm
going to put him."
Unfortunately, most nonstandard insurers don't want to go above the
industry-recommended bodily injury liability limits of $100,000 per
person, $300,000 per incident. While pushing limits to $250,000 and
$500,000 is inexpensive for clean drivers, "if you have tickets, the
rates get astronomical - they can even double," says San
Francisco-based agent Gary Savelli. For that reason, make sure you
don't stay with a nonstandard carrier (or in the assigned risk pool) a
day longer than necessary. In most states, moving violations and
accidents stay on your record for three to five years; once you've
been clean for three years - if you don't drive an exotic car (say, a
Maserati) - you should be able to find standard carriers that will
insure you."
http://www.smartmoney.com/mag/index.cfm?story=nov02-auto

On-Line Automobile Insurance Quote Form
Form is for auto, SR-22 filings, & nonowners.
http://www.sr22-insurance-filing.com/sr22-auto-insurance-quote.html

How a DUI conviction affects your insurance
http://info.insure.com/auto/duiconviction.html

Insurance Rates After A DUI
http://www.joshdale.com/dui-help-california12.html

How do I get an SR22 Filing to reactive my drivers license?
"You must purchase minimum liability coverage on the vehicle(s) you
own. If you do not own a motor vehicle, you must purchase "non-owners"
liability coverage. The price is based on the severity of your driving
record (accidents and violations), where you live, and the number of
years of driving experience. If you do not know what is on your
driving record, purchase it from DMV (usual cost is $5.00 to $10.00
per record). Then you must purchase the proper kind of policy."
How long must I maintain an SR22 Filing?
"Under normal circumstances the SR22 Filing period is three years.
However, with the advent of stricter enforcement of DMV laws, and
lobbying against drunk drivers, the terms can be extended."
How Long Does a DUI Stay on my Record?
"The bad part is that the violation stays on your driving record for
10 years. It is rated for points by insurance companies for 3 years,
so that is some relief, but most preferred carriers do not take
drivers with DUI violations, so it may be a long wait until you get
that kind of policy (such as Geico, AAA, 21st Century, Allstate,
etc.)"
http://www.dui-auto-insurance.com/faq.html

Companies that Insure High Risk Drivers
http://www.ksinsurance.org/index.php?id=0141

Broker:
"We specialize in hard to place auto risk such as young drivers, high
value cars, multiple tickets or accidents, DUI, and suspended
licenses. As independent brokers, we find the best insurance company
to fit your needs. We understand that you want a company that thinks
your protection and security are more important than just a policy in
your files. We are pleased to include these two insurance companies
among those we represent."
http://www.ppib.com/personal.htm

I hope this helps to get you off to a good start. If you have any
questions, please post a clarification request and wait for me to
respond before closing/rating my answer.

Thank you,
hummer

Google Search Terms Used in various combinations: SR-22 geico high
risk dui auto nonstandard insurance brokers multi rates

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Clarification of Answer by hummer-ga on 31 Oct 2005 19:46 PST

Hi! I just noticed your clarification about Georgia after I posted my
answer, so you'll find my information more general rather than Georgia
oriented. My eyes are very tired and I need to get away from the
screen. I'll have a look again in the morning with Georgia in mind and
let you know what I find. I'll be away from the computer for most of
the day tomorrow so I'll try to post something before I leave. If it's
not possible, you know I'll be back in touch eventually. In the mean
time, have a look at the links I posted, hopefully you'll find them
helpful.

Regards,
hummer

---

Clarification of Answer by hummer-ga on 01 Nov 2005 05:05 PST

Good morning, mobikobe,

In Georgia, a person who has been declared an habitual violator may be
issued a probationary driverīs license after two years that their
driver's license was surrendered.  In order to be issued a
probationary license, proof of financial responsibility (SR-22) is
mandatory.  After being on the probationary license three years, the
person is eligible for a regular license (another SR-22 isn't
required).  The probationary license, I think, is important in the
rehabilitation process as it has many conditions attached to it, such
as:

Georgia Code 40-5-58. 
(A) Specific places between which the licensee may be allowed to
operate a motor vehicle;
(B) Routes to be followed by the licensee;
(C) Times of travel;
(D) The specific vehicles which the licensee may operate
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=40-5-58

Georgia Department of Driver Services
375-3-3-.02 Proof of Financial Responsibility for Probationary License. Amended.
"(1) Proof of financial responsibility must be made by an authorized
insurance company filing a Form SR-22 certifying that the violator has
in effect a valid liability insurance policy covering the required
future time span or, by the owner of a motor vehicle filing a Form
DS-266 showing that the owner has provided insurance on the vehicle to
be operated by the driver. Such proof of financial responsibility must
include full name, license number and date of birth of operator."
"(2) The Department will accept a "premium financed" SR-22..."
"(3) An SR-22 form not marked "premium financed" is accepted on the
basis that it is paid in full. The Department will not accept a
cancellation notice (SR-26) for non-payment of the premium and the
policy must remain in effect for the statutory required length of
time."
"(8) The liability insurance policy shall provide for payment of not
less than $25,000 because of bodily injury to or death of one person
in any one accident, and not less than $50,000 because of bodily
injury to or death of two or more persons in any one accident, and to
a limit of not less than $25,000 because of injury to or destruction
of property of others in any one accident."
http://www.dds.ga.gov/rules/rules.aspx?chap=375-3-3&rule=375-3-3-.02&head=375-3

Georgia Department of Driver Services
375-3-3-.07 Reinstatement of Habitual Violators at Expiration of
Habitual Violator Revocation. Amended.
In considering the reinstatement of habitual violators, the following
issues will be considered:
1. Driving Record: After considering the driving record to determine
the character and habits of the licensee, the Revocation and
Suspension Unit may issue a letter at the end of the five year period
that would authorize reinstatement based on such driving record. Any
pending suspensions or revocations would also need to be cleared prior
to reinstatement of the license.
2. Driving ability: Licensee may be required to take and pass the full
driving examination prior to reinstatement.
3. Cost: A restoration fee of $210/$200 shall be paid to the examiner
prior to issuance of the new license (no exceptions to this fee).
4. Form DS-1259: Form letter utilized to advise licensee that the
period of habitual violator revocation has expired, however, if the
records of the Department reflect that other suspension(s) appear on
the driver record, they must be cleared prior to the reinstatement of
the license.
http://www.dds.ga.gov/rules/rules.aspx?chap=375-3-3&rule=375-3-3-.07&head=375-3

Has your wife not been issued a probationary license? 

Regards,
hummer

A lot of research went into your work, and I appreciate the effort.  I
also took the advice of one of the people who commented and, after
consulting with a friend who owns an insurance agency, called GEICO
and let them know what my situation was.  Their link to the Licensing
department was down, so I don't know what their answer will be. I was
afraid that they might increase my rates if they knew about this, but
my agent friend said that they wouldn't have any basis to do that
unless she already had her license back.

they give you a discount for a "defensive driving course" 
that's why they are asking, they don't need to use code for a dui,
they can ask directly.

Our prison system is full of people who are locked away for harmless
drug possession that in no way dangered other people, yet somebody who
has five DUIs is able to reapply for their license, even though there
averages around 17,000 alcohol related motor vehicle deaths in a year.
 AA or not, nobody should be allowed to even get to five DUIs, let
alone be given the chance to get their 6th and maybe kill somebody in
the process - they should either be in jail or at the least have long
since had their license revoked for life.  While tens of thousands of
people mourn the loss of innocent loved ones to drunk drivers, you
worry that your insurance rates will go up.  Pathetic.

Why don't you just call geico and ask them what the resulting premiums
will be?  That takes all the speculation and drama out of the
question.

stapalhead, she did serve prison time.  Feel better butthole?