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Subject:
Physics, hydrolics
Category: Science Asked by: bozobozo-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
16 Nov 2005 19:24 PST
Expires: 16 Dec 2005 19:24 PST Question ID: 594022 |
In constructing a fountain, how does one calcualte the horsepower pump motor needed to result in a spray effect six feet in height ejecting from a one eight inch diameter nozzle? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: rracecarr-ga on 16 Nov 2005 20:49 PST |
do you mean a one-eighth inch diameter nozzle? |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: satcomtech-ga on 17 Nov 2005 06:31 PST |
Click on this page then on Contacts... http://www.capturedsea.com/index3.htm these guys will know what you need... they did Disney Landscaping/waterworks... Sometimes i can only lead you to the water, err waterfountain in this case... ha ha |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: qed100-ga on 17 Nov 2005 17:11 PST |
Hello, I'm going to treat this in the mks system of units, so as to get the wattage required to run your fountain. I figure you need to know this anyway, and it can be converted to horsepower at the end if that's really necessary. You specify a jet of water squirting vertically from a 1/8 inch diameter hole to a height of 6 feet. This translates to a diameter of 3.18 x 10^-3 m, and a height of (pretty nearly) 2 m. It is effectively shooting a cylinder of water with a volume of 5.04 x 10^-6 m^3, with a mass of 5.04 x 10^-3 kg. Now we need to determine how much initial velocity is required to propel a body to that height, and how much time it takes, from which we can determine the rate at which energy is being consumed to propel the liquid. Neglecting air restance (and over a height of 2 meters, it's not important anyway), the velocity aquired by a mass dropping from a height to the ground is equal to the initial velocity required to project it from the ground to the same height. The formula for this is: V = SQRT[v^2 + 2gh] h = starting height above the ground = 2 m g = acceleration due to gravity = 9.8 m/s^2 v = initial velocity at h = 0 V = final velocity, at the ground Plugging in the numbers, we get V = 6.26 m/s. This is how fast the water must be traveling as it is ejected from the hole. Now for the time of ascent. The formula for this is: t = -v = SQRT[v^2 = 2gs]/a Again, plugging in the same numbers from above, we get t = 0.64 s. It'll take 64/100 of a second for ejected water to reach a height of 2 m. So how much water mass is ejecting each second from the nozzle? That's [5.04 x 10^-3 kg]/[0.64 s] = 7.88 x 10^-3 kg/s. This is much much water mass is being delivered to a height of 2 m each second. The kinetic energy required to propel water to this height is equal to its potential energy when at that height. This is given simply by the product, mgh. The pump is propelling 7.88 x 10^-3 kg/s against an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 to 2 m. The kinetic energy of the mass each second then comes to 0.15 j (joules), or in other words, the pump is consuming at least 0.15 watts. Now of course, the pump will not be 100% efficient. There will be some heat loss as it does its job. Let's say that it's 75% efficient. This means that it must consume .20 w to propel the fountain, or a horsepower of 2.68 x 10^-4 foot-pounds/second. |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: bozobozo-ga on 18 Nov 2005 06:34 PST |
To: qed100 from Bozobozo Subject:Physics/hydrolics Comment: Thanks very much for your answer. If you can indulge my enlargement of the question..., I plan to build a fountain with a 3 foot spray ring centered in a 9' x 9' basin and would like to have 12 nozzle spray heads in the ring, each of which would have a 3/8 inch nozzle opening and spray jets 6 feet (or as you say, about 2 meters) in height. I need to know how many gallons per minute would flow from these 12 jets and what wattage (or horsepower) would be required to operate the fountain. The pump would be a submerged centripetal pump. I apologize for not being more specific in my original question, but I felt I could calculate and determine these specific values which I needed from an answer to that more "simple" question... but I cannot! Thanks again as your answer was exactly what I needed, but I now realize that I should have asked the more detailed question. |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: qed100-ga on 18 Nov 2005 10:26 PST |
The orifice you originally specified was 1/8 inch diameter. The new diameter is 3/8 inch. The area of the opening is given by pi*r^2, so the ratio of the new area to the old is exactly 9/1. The mass of the water being shot by each nozzle will be greater than my previous estimate by a factor of 9, and so will the energy & power. This gives 1.8 watts per nozzle, or 2.41 x 10^-3 foot-pounds/s. Twelve nozzles come to 21.6 watts, or 2.89 x 10^-2 foot-pounds/s. (0.0289 foot-pounds/s) Each nozzle is shooting 0.071 liters/s, which is 4.26 liters/minute, or 1.12 gallons/minute, and the twelve nozzles come to 13.49 gallons/minute. Now just offhand, you ought to allow a very generous fudge-factor. My calculation of the energy consumption is based only on a simplified picture of water being ejected upwards, with an estimate of the energy efficiency of the pump itself. If 75% efficiency turns out to be way too high, you need to be able to adjust the ouput. Also, efficiency is very affected by such things as how deep under the pond the recycling inlet is (which can actually help the efficiency), and also by how much length of pipe the water travels through between the pump & the exit, and upon how many right turns the pipe makes, each of which steal power. I'd conservatively guess that you should multiply all my power figures by at least another factor of three, just to be on the safe side, and be sure to procure a pump which can be power adjusted. |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: azdoug-ga on 09 Dec 2005 13:56 PST |
You need to look at some pump curves. A pump curve is a graph that shows the feet of head (how high your water will shoot) versus the flowrate (gallons/minute). For a centrifugal pump, the head varies with the flowrate. At a very low flowrate, you could shoot water higher than you could at a higher flowrate. Also shown on the curve is the brake horsepower. This is the power required at the various flowrates. For example, the pump curve I'm looking at right now shows some various points - (ft. of head @ GPM). 3900ft@200GPM, 3625ft@800GPM, 2150ft@1500GPM. Obviously this is a huge pump. Also, you need to consider the NPSHa and NPSHr. This is Net Positive Suction Head available and required. If your NPSHr is greater than your NPSHa, your pump will cavitate (it'll sound like someone threw a handful of gravel into your pump). The longer it cavitates, the faster it will break. Your blades will dissolve away, your piping will be eaten, and the pump will ultimately fail. go to www.efunda.com for more about pump sizing. It's hard to tell you how much HP you'll need without knowing the blade design, and especially GPM. Everything depends on GPM. In other words, do you want to have a micro stream of water that goes 3 ft. high, or do you want to have a massive, river of water going 3 ft. high? Once you choose a GPM, you'll be able to decide on a pump... and then just size the motor to fit the brake horsepower of the pump. AZD |
Subject:
Re: Physics, hydrolics
From: rracecarr-ga on 09 Dec 2005 16:25 PST |
I'm not sure where qed100 made a mistake, but his answers aren't right. Power required is sqrt(2)DA(gh)^(3/2), where D is density of water, A is total cross sectional area of nozzles, g is acceleration of gravity, and h is height of fountain. For 12 3/8" diameter nozzles, that's 36.2 watts, which is the pump power required if there were no friction/inefficiency. Actual electric power consumed is probably more like 100 watts, depending on the particular pump and geometry of the plumbing. The water flow rate is A*sqrt(2gh), which is 0.00202 m^3/s, or 2.02 liters/sec, or 32 gallons/minute. |
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